RapidComposer v4 beta feedback and discussion (locked)

[sj1]

I wanted to ask everyone's opinion about the following: I want you to be able to assign an own instrument to phrases and individual notes. So there won't a strict 1 to 1 relationship between tracks and instruments, a track could include notes and phrases using several instruments, and other tracks could use the same instruments. Basically there will be a list of loaded/instantiated instruments and any of them can be assigned to any track/phrase/note.

This would be implemented for v5.0 as it is a substantial change in the internal logic. Old v4 composition files can be loaded, maybe the track instruments will not be preserved, but I will do my best to make it fully compatible with v4 composition files.

Is this feature worth the effort, is this something you would find useful?

My initial (not deep) thought about this -

This proposal goes beyond current typical DAW practices. In that sense it is ground-breaking.

Every DAW I've ever worked with assigns an instrument to a track. Content (MIDI) is then placed on different tracks according to what instrument the user wants to use to sound it. I've personally never found this paradigm to be a particular problem or impediment.

Certainly I can imagine some "far-out" results ultimately resulting, especially if the contemplated destination ultimately anticipates software algorithmic assistance in re-assigning (recomposing) what phrases are routed to what instruments, either by regeneration or randomization (with or without subsequent "freezing").

So, as such, would it be cool? Sure!

As a matter of priority and effort though, I would place this secondary to making RC itself super-stable, super-smooth, super-fast wrt. workflow.

IOW, I'd tend to think that a very careful, very thorough drag thru your own current list of TODOs, along with those additional suggestions/requests that the users have already made or can provide over the next few months should be a higher priority than this particular paradigm expansion.

Even a serious round of scheduled attention to docs and examples should probably take precedence, IM offhand O.

Also, if there are other "big-ticket" ideas that might compete (or conflict) with this for time and effort, I'd suggest surfacing them for consideration first before making a final decision to go ahead.

--

Looking forward to loading some VST3s and seeing how it goes!

[sj1]

Ah, RC is quiting on me during the process of scanning the VST3 plugins.

Tried twice, and the last entry each time was:

Loading module 'C:/Program Files/Common Files/VST3/B-3 V.vst3'...
Vendor: Arturia URL: http://www.arturia.com e-mail: mailto:contact@arturia.com
Name: B-3 V
Vendor: Arturia
Version: 1.3.1.1782
Category: Audio Module Class
SDK Version: VST 3.5.2
Buses: 0 audio and 1 event inputs; 1 audio and 0 event outputs
setBusArrangements OK

[musicdevelopments]

Thanks for your input, Steve!
I mentioned this as a (not so distant) future development. However I know there are more urgent things to do. After v4.6 is released with fully working and reliable VST3 support, I'll concentrate on using machine learning/AI algorithms for creating new, or continuing existing phrases. Someone requested "DAW view" of the composition which will be implemented in the next weeks.

Thanks,
Attila

[musicdevelopments]

Ouch! BluGenes also reported a crash during scanning plug-ins. I suspect there is an issue when unloading the plug-in. I'll have a fix shortly.
Until scanning works you can add plug-ins manually under Settings / Plug-ins.

[thebutler]

Hi Attila - responding to your great new idea for future RC expansion.

Not wishing to dampen any enthusiasm, but sorry, right now I feel I'm in agreement with pretty much all of what @sj1 says in his post above (underneath 4.6 Beta3 announcement).

For many of us, DAW working methods have become like second nature, whereby desired 'different' sounds for certain notes/phrases/passages (or layering of sounds) on a track, is a quick enough task i.e. duplicate that track, isolate the notes/phrases in question and choose (or load) another instrument instance for that playback. Similar workings for RC too.

Looking back through previous months comments from folk, I note all the little/big ideas you might take on instead, bringing workflow/quality-of-life improvements etc, before diving into such a major programming overhaul your idea needs.

Stuff from @rockbandguy; @lulukom; @lovemusic15; @BluGenes; @sj1

Some great improvement ideas to MidiMutator from @lovemusic15 for example:-
viewtopic.php?p=8594215#p8594215

'Highlight Scales...' checkbox (little thing) from @lulukom:-
viewtopic.php?p=8587572#p8587572

Or, if you're looking for a break(!), there's always Fyler and your other instruments/modules too of course.

I know I'm being picky, and you have added s-o-o-o much already.!! I know you can't do everything.!

Anyway, just my thoughts on all that for now... So, to the new Beta release.!

As a rule, I'm more selective these days what I install on my ageing machine/system, it getting easily 'upset' or 'sensitive' to change, so won't be helping with testing this round I'm afraid (frankly, its enough with it trying to cope with monthly Windows Updates - Lol.!). Anyway, one thought struck me, when I saw the preview screen you posted here:-
viewtopic.php?p=8594063#p8594063

Any chance of a 'filter' mechanism added in here, so you could choose a view/sort the results listed.? VST2 only; VST3 only; by manufacturer; most recently added; alphabetise list up/down; etc, etc...

Many thanks for getting VST3 instruments working inside RC.! Looking forward to seeing this develop.

thebutler

[sj1]

I would love to see a Lightning button to fire the Idea Tool on the main Composition tab.

RC - IT Lightning Mock-Up 01.jpg

This would allow me, once I've got an IT setup I like for now, to stay on the Composition tab screen, add parts with the structure browser, select them and generate them very quickly.

[sj1]

This leads me to the idea of a Structure Library.

I guess today the the closest equivalent would be to save a bunch of empty compositions (or templates) to choose from and then load them as desired.

Still though, the Structure is a much of a THING as a phrase or chord progression. It would be really excellent to be able to manage Structures as such.

Along with saving/loading/accumulating, having a (at least semi-) smart Structure generation capability would round out the functionality very nicely.

All very straightforward stuff programmatically speaking, I think ...

[sj1]

Which leads me to the macro-question:

What are the axes of change involved to realize a composition?

A short list -

Structure
Chord Progression
Time Sigs
Tempos
Phrases
Instrumentation
Effects
Automation

What others can we all come up with?

For every well-identifed axis of choice/change, it's a fair hope to have Rapid Composer offer the superior interface for creation, collection, generation, randomization, etc. on each axis.

RC is already very advanced in many of these respects, probably already including the most difficult to implement.

Completing and perfecting the set is my suggestion for macro-guidance re: the further evolution of RC.

[magicmusic]

Hi Attila

I think assign own instrument for phrases is not easy to handle. when work longer times not on a song dont know which phrase have which instrument. when use tracks see clear what it is. also you can move phrases to other tracks to change sound. i have soime guitar vst tracks and i move the phrase on which track it sound best. same with bass

to have a better overview when have many tracks, maybe you can add track view options. for examples a selection "show only tracks with a phrase at current position" . then only tracks are show which have a phrase and are used. and options to disable or enable tracks to display. other daw have this too but i think can do better. when a track is disable, then a 3 or 4 pixel line is draw. and when click on it the track is show.

I use this new beta. on windows 10 and windows 11 both same after i installed the new rc it quit when add a VST 3. but when i try second time to add same instrument rc work. I test with falcon and unify and rc detect correct as multitimbral instrument and midi play work correct in the VST 2 version. but on the VST 3 version the midi data of keyboard is not send to the plugin and no realtime midi play is possible. when switch between gm synth and falcon or unify i get 1 crash. but it often works. maybe you try switch the instrument between gm synth in rc and vst 3 vst 2 plugin and you see that too

[musicdevelopments]

Hi thebutler,

thank you for your thoughts! Now I am really happy that I asked you...
In the next months I'll concentrate on features requested on this forum and put away my ideas.
I am not (yet) looking for a break. Making VST3 plug-ins work was a kind of break: it was different from other tasks with new challenges (learning and coping with the VST3 SDK to host plug-ins).

I am going to implement your idea about filtering and sorting the lists, not just the plug-ins list but the settings, keyboard shortcuts, colors, etc lists too. Even in this beta version two requested features have been implemented. Sometimes what users ask takes 2-3 hours to develop, still this small change makes their life easier and their workflow smoother. Some other ideas (e.g. using AI) may take months. I'll re-read the forum for small ideas.

Thanks again!
Attila

[musicdevelopments]

Excellent idea, I'll add this for the next update.
I am looking for similar features that can make your workflow easier.

Thanks for the mock-up!
Attila

I would love to see a Lightning button to fire the Idea Tool on the main Composition tab.

This would allow me, once I've got an IT setup I like for now, to stay on the Composition tab screen, add parts with the structure browser, select them and generate them very quickly.

[musicdevelopments]

There is a serious memory deallocation issue when VST3 plug-ins are unloaded.
For the time being please do not use VST3 plug-ins. There will be an update shortly.

Thanks for all the feedback!
Attila

[musicdevelopments]

RapidComposer v4.6b4 is available!

Improvements:

• Crashing memory deallocation bug fixed when unloading VST3 plug-ins

[sj1]

Hi again.

Adding a 'Select in TImeline' capability to the Structure Browser would be a nice additional support for the workflow mentioned above.

RC -Struture Browser Select in Timeline Action 02.jpg

Actually, probably even better (quicker) would be another tiny icon, for both Parts and Lines, which has the effect of making the timeline selection.

[sj1]

... as would a single keystroke and/or click to do the timeline selection when parts are already on display.

RC -Struture Browser Select in Timeline Action 03.jpg

This is all in support of most rapidly getting the relevant portion of the timeline selected and ready as target for the Idea Tool lightning button.