Magix Vandal amp sim = Winner in terms of sound quality so far

[Silenceborn]

Btw, I have asked before but got no response, if anyone had any experience using "Softube Acoustic Feedback" plug-in, is it working good and in a right way ? I might buy it if its close to the real feedback. please let me know people if any of you tried it. the concept of having virtual feedback is interesting.

Hm... virtual amp modeling is already kind of cybersex, but virtual feedback to me appears even more blasphemic. Do they model adrenaline?

About the 'noise'. I've heard that various times in 1:1 conversations that Vandal procduces less hiss. Funny. People even claimed some modelers 'added' artificial noise. Even more funny. I'd consider that a myth. Although that could be part of the underlying model (if it's granular enough, though I doubt someone even models actual electron flux and dotation, producing thermal noise ), I actually guess that perception of 'noise' in a guitar amp comes from the preamp's voicing, aka spectral balance. Vandal produces quite some hiss, too, if you play with the voicing knobs enough. For instance, set the preamp to 'brit' (click on the wrench symbol), put the freq knob to 11 o'clock and curve to 10 o'clock, and you end up with a freq response texture similar to a marshall. When 'curve' goes leftwards, the preamp automatically compensates for the volume loss, so that 'scooped' settings go louder, thereby also boosting the highs respectively. Or: try the 'treble booster' stomp in front of the amp
Vandal's tube model knows about miller capacitance (most obvious on the lead channel), which naturally dampens the highs with hig hamplification facturs (mu). But I also limit the HF with cranked-up gains anyway with the surrounding circuit (personal taste). Depending on the preamp model, the actual channel and the momentary gain setting, the HF roll-off takes place between 15k down to 5k, as far as I recall. Again, just use the voicing for more crunch & hiss, if it's too dull then.

"..but virtual feedback to me appears even more blasphemic.." that was hilarious! sascha. Well you probably read here that I'm teaching philosophy of religion, ..indeed it is "blasphemous" ! but anyway I was thinking now that everything is getting virtualized, maybe some of those GOD MEN come to earth and do the impossible possible. I know that could be a lucid dreaming though.

Regarding the noise and sound characteristics, I don't think I understood all parts of your post to be honest, it is a bit too advanced for me, but I experienced the things you said as well, playing with that voicing aka curve and freq and other especial settings can make HUGE difference indeed, when I saw those settings for the first time I was blown away by the infinite tone palette that I could use with Vandal, please never ever remove that voicing part from Vandal, its very unique and very useful. I can shape almost any desirable sound out of this monster with the help of them.

The other thing that just shocked me was the UPFRONT sound of Vandal, man I love Amplitube for that Upfront and "into your face sound", but now I Love Vandal more cuz its sound is even MORE Upfront!!, I don't know what you guys did, but whatever you did I absolutely like the result .

Finally thanks again for this wonderful amp sim, keep up the great job !
(also please take care of those bugs and I will be as happy as a free bird )

Cheers !

[dblock]

I'll say this about the hiss/noise issue with guitar sims. I'll use amplitube as an example since it seemed to be agreed that noise was part of the "realism."
If that is true, then give us an off button. I don't want it that real.
Guitar Rig 4 addressed the issue of noise pretty well I'd say. the difference was very noticable and I'm betting it was due to feedback (no pun intended)they received. I'm betting they didn't address it just because it bothered them.
I like clean recordings and most people you send music to demand it especially if you don't do metal.

[redshift factor]

I'll say this about the hiss/noise issue with guitar sims. I'll use amplitube as an example since it seemed to be agreed that noise was part of the "realism."
If that is true, then give us an off button. I don't want it that real.

It's just the physics of gain staging. And there is an "off button": the noise gate. It's not like any ampsim developer adds artificial noise to their software. It just appears for the same reasons that it does in a real guitar amp + effects chain. Every time you add gain, the entire signal chain is boosted, including the noise from your pickups, cables, etc. The more stages of gain boost in a chain (pedals, amp volume, compression, etc) the louder that noise is going to be when it comes out the other end.

If you have a noise problem, then the source is your guitar. My Strat had a real bad noise problem until I replaced the stock pickups with some EMGs. Ever since then, it's been clean and pristine. So I'd suggest you attack the problem at the source, as well, which might mean fixing bad wiring, getting new pickups, or perhaps even a new guitar. Remember, garbage in = garbage out, so you need to start with a good instrument.

Next, as I suggested earlier, use NR before your ampsim of choice. That will kill the noise when it is at the quietest and the least like your guitar tone, which is when it is easiest for NR to distinguish and separate the two, giving you the best results. Once you start boosting the signal, the noise and guitar tone will become increasingly similar, until it is impossible to remove the noise without affecting the guitar tone. Ideally, you shouldn't use anything in between your guitar and audio device hi-Z input. Any type of signal booster can contribute to increased noise.

Finally, if you are using AmpliTube 3 standalone, make sure you turn the input level slider at the bottom down to 0dB every time you open it. It needlessly boosts your noise. I'm not really sure why IKMM added that thing at all, much less why it defaults to +6 every time AmpliTube 3 is launched. I hope they fix that soon.

[dblock]

I'll say this about the hiss/noise issue with guitar sims. I'll use amplitube as an example since it seemed to be agreed that noise was part of the "realism."
If that is true, then give us an off button. I don't want it that real.

It's just the physics of gain staging. And there is an "off button": the noise gate. It's not like any ampsim developer adds artificial noise to their software. It just appears for the same reasons that it does in a real guitar amp + effects chain. Every time you add gain, the entire signal chain is boosted, including the noise from your pickups, cables, etc. The more stages of gain boost in a chain (pedals, amp volume, compression, etc) the louder that noise is going to be when it comes out the other end.

If you have a noise problem, then the source is your guitar. My Strat had a real bad noise problem until I replaced the stock pickups with some EMGs. Ever since then, it's been clean and pristine. So I'd suggest you attack the problem at the source, as well, which might mean fixing bad wiring, getting new pickups, or perhaps even a new guitar. Remember, garbage in = garbage out, so you need to start with a good instrument.

Next, as I suggested earlier, use NR before your ampsim of choice. That will kill the noise when it is at the quietest and the least like your guitar tone, which is when it is easiest for NR to distinguish and separate the two, giving you the best results. Once you start boosting the signal, the noise and guitar tone will become increasingly similar, until it is impossible to remove the noise without affecting the guitar tone. Ideally, you shouldn't use anything in between your guitar and audio device hi-Z input. Any type of signal booster can contribute to increased noise.

Finally, if you are using AmpliTube 3 standalone, make sure you turn the input level slider at the bottom down to 0dB every time you open it. It needlessly boosts your noise. I'm not really sure why IKMM added that thing at all, much less why it defaults to +6 every time AmpliTube 3 is launched. I hope they fix that soon.

Nuch appreciate the detailed explanation redshift.

[Ken McLaren]

I know I don't add artificial noise, and, I removed mine because it DID bother me. Although, I was toying with the idea of adding antenna loop, so your sim will all of a sudden start relaying the conversations of passing aircraft, firetrucks and CB Radios. Ahh never mind I removed it..
KM

[hibidy]

a real amps hiss sounds better because it's more analog

[johnrrrrrr]

I am actually shocked that most People dont recognize the clear digital faults of most Plugin modelers.I do realize some do.

Do this test. Play a D Bar chord on a distorted sound and hold it long(not a down tuned low D numetal sound--that is too low to hear what Im gonna show you)So a standard tuning C or D.

You will hear a buzzy modulation sound as the chord is sustained. Now, this happens on real amps to a very small degree--but on modelers it is pathological. Vandal does this and so does every single solitary free amp I have downloaded from here. Line6 Podfarm has it, as does GRig and Revalver.

If you play short stabbing distorted chords, single notes riffs, or chords other than bar chords you wont hear it because it something in the way the overtones and harmonics really gel on a bar chord.. But when you do hear it--it will so freakin obvious it will make you sick. I have done a hundreds tests on it and every plugin has it except Amplitube 3. They figured out something recently and I think it has to do with variation in the clipping of each wave. If all the clipping is the same or done wrong this crazy modulation occurs as the simulation does not respond correctly to the drop in input level..

It has been a huge problem to solve in the modeling of clipped waves.

PS..it is not Fizz(the most understood term by noobies) Fizz is very different. Fizz does not modulate in way that can be heard.

[shogger]

Yoh John. Do me a favor please. As I have my guitar tuned to C I can't do this test as you say. Please make a comparisson audio with e.g. Le456 and A3 to show what you're talking about. Thanx.

Shogger

[Ken McLaren]

John if you do that recording, would you mind also including one with Shred as well. I would seriously appreciate that..I know I've heard this conversation before, but never understood it, this may finally clear up what people are trying to tell me..

Thanks
KM

[dblock]

I know I don't add artificial noise, and, I removed mine because it DID bother me. Although, I was toying with the idea of adding antenna loop, so your sim will all of a sudden start relaying the conversations of passing aircraft, firetrucks and CB Radios. Ahh never mind I removed it..
KM

lmao!

[mauseoleum]

I know I don't add artificial noise, and, I removed mine because it DID bother me. Although, I was toying with the idea of adding antenna loop, so your sim will all of a sudden start relaying the conversations of passing aircraft, firetrucks and CB Radios. Ahh never mind I removed it..
KM

lmao!

+1

[Dean Aka Nekro]

@Nekro:

sounds a bit grainy to me...


In all seriousness: I don't think it's usually quite easy to say what's 'better' - it all depends so much on your tastes, on what music you make and on how comfortable you feel and how successful you are when tweaking the tools for your personal needs.

(That's why having a one 'boutique' amp like Flying Haggis or Vandal can be a better thing than having a myriad of emulations like AT - it of course can also be the other way around.)

I for example can't currently imagine any situation where I would need a guitar sound similar to the one you're so proud of here... it's just too far away from what I do and like. And I could never be arsed to go through the procedure you described (even if I had enough mics, which I surely haven't )

Yeah i totally agree Jens - It all depends on numerous factors & what sound is required for the job/task in hand. Then it also comes down to a guitar players peference also > And we are picky swines (coming from an engineering perspective and a players perspective) and 'best' or 'better' is certainly not measurable. Different is the word

All the best

Dean

[Hink]

different certainly describes me

[Dean Aka Nekro]

different certainly describes me

Indeed and i would say all the better for it man. Any news on that
money you got done out of? Hope its sorted out. Last time IIRC you were
putting the finishing touches too an Electric Dulcimer not so long ago?
Different for sure: would not mind hearing it in action if you use it
on any tracks or in any context for that matter tbh Hink (Despite my mainly metal taste's - I am genuinely fascinated to listen to anything that could
be deemed 'different' or 'other' if pushed to label something with a genre tag)

All the best to you

Dean/Nekro

[Silenceborn]

Hey can someone please tell me what exactly is that "Enclosure Damping" means in the Cab section settings ? it can change the sound way too much.

Btw, I was trying some external compressors to beef up the sound a bit, and this Tube-Tech Comp by Softube which I'm using all the time for other instruments and mostly vocal is just wonderful, its almost a clean compressor, but can make the sound, especially a bit over-driven sounds so warm and wet on guitar. But when I want to compress a somehow high gain or crunch sound, it won't do the job, cuz its so mild and vintage, anyone here can recommend me a sharp & tight compressor for crunch and high gain here ??

Pref a commercial one, I already have some free comps.

Cheers