KVR Audio

echosystm · Post by **echosystm** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:16 pm

Download SOphist wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:55 pm Would it be better to skip the base 8 core M1Pro model and go for a 10 Core model? Not that i need it for my actual musical purposes, but thinking more of future proofing.

Buying the cheapest machine that meets your needs and upgrading more often tends to be the best approach. That almost always results in better performance per dollar, over time.

teilo · Post by **teilo** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:25 pm

el davo wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:27 am Ableton shows poor performance on Apple silicon as of yet. This benchmark (11.1 beta, native code) compared the track count for a grand piano instrument (apparently representative of other CPU demanding plugs including 3rd party):

M1 8 GB Ram: 12 tracks
M1 pro 16 GB: 32 tracks
i9 3.6GHz, 64 GB: 200+ tracks (at least>160, video ending was botched)

That's what happens in beta. The lastest update dramatically improves this, and exceeds the i9 @ > 200 tracks:

I imagine this will further improve.

dayjob · Post by **dayjob** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:12 pm

2023 will be interesting.

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/11/05/ap ... p-roadmap/

Apple is planning a "much bigger leap" with its third-generation chips, some of which will be manufactured with TSMC's 3nm process and have up to four dies, which the report says could translate into the chips having up to 40 compute cores. For comparison, the M1 chip has an 8-core CPU and the M1 Pro and M1 Max chips have 10-core CPUs, while Apple's high-end Mac Pro tower can be configured with up to a 28-core Intel Xeon W processor.

The report cites sources who expect TSMC to be able to reliably manufacture 3nm chips by 2023 for use in both Macs and iPhones. The third-generation chips are codenamed Ibiza, Lobos, and Palma, according to the report, and it's likely they will debut in higher-end Macs first, such as future 14-inch and 16-inch MacBook Pro models. A less powerful third-generation chip is also said to be planned for a future MacBook Air.

meanwhile.. the new intel chips, alder lake(?).. use twice the power of top AMD chips which use about twice the power of M1 i think. could be off on that estimate. but anyone who thinks apple isn't "all in" on apple silicon and ARM chips is dreaming.. they're not going to look back.

3nm process w/more and more cores in just a couple years. the future looks good so long as devs catch up.

el davo · Post by **el davo** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:43 pm

teilo wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:25 pm
el davo wrote: Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:27 am Ableton shows poor performance on Apple silicon as of yet. This benchmark (11.1 beta, native code) compared the track count for a grand piano instrument (apparently representative of other CPU demanding plugs including 3rd party):

M1 8 GB Ram: 12 tracks
M1 pro 16 GB: 32 tracks
i9 3.6GHz, 64 GB: 200+ tracks (at least>160, video ending was botched)
That's what happens in beta. The lastest update dramatically improves this, and exceeds the i9 @ > 200 tracks:

I imagine this will further improve.

Yes, good development

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:03 am

Any thoughts about this video? It seems like for typical, real-life music production scenarios Pro/Max M1s aren't that much faster than "old" MBP 13'', which costs 1/3 of the price (at the least):

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:09 am

The Pro/Max Macbooks introduced a couple of days ago use the same core as the year old M1. They just have a more advanced GPU core. As far as the CPU goes, they are the same

FapFilter · Post by **FapFilter** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:45 am

The CPU has two more cores or so.
Plus 13“ is too small for me.
And of course you have more Thunderbolt / USB ports

It's up to you wether the price difference is worth it to you though.

But unless you are a gamer (in which case a Windows system would be the much smarter and inexpensive choice) or want to use it for rendering video or CGI, the Pro is actually the better choice than the stated Max in that video.
I'd also wager that most people would still come along with 16GB of RAM.
Unless you are one of those with literally 100+ tracks of gargantuan Kontakt orchestral sample libraries.
But it's of course good for Apple that many seem to still think that a Max with at least 32GB, better yet 64GB than be sorry is the best solution, despite not giving them any advantages at all in most scenarios.

cadiz · Post by **cadiz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:08 pm

sQeetz wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:09 am The Pro/Max Macbooks introduced a couple of days ago use the same core as the year old M1. They just have a more advanced GPU core. As far as the CPU goes, they are the same

That’s not correct, just check the CPU benchmarks and other real life scenarios

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:12 pm

cadiz wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:08 pm
sQeetz wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:09 am The Pro/Max Macbooks introduced a couple of days ago use the same core as the year old M1. They just have a more advanced GPU core. As far as the CPU goes, they are the same
That’s not correct, just check the CPU benchmarks and other real life scenarios

Single core benchmarks are exactly the same. They are the same cores. Of course the Pro/Max ones have more of them, but they are technically the same

cadiz · Post by **cadiz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:30 pm

Correct but for most applications like DAWs the multicore performance is what counts

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:37 pm

cadiz wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:30 pm Correct but for most applications like DAWs the multicore performance is what counts

Depends. It's actually not really true, since DAWS depend on single core performance more. FX chains can't work in parallel.

cadiz · Post by **cadiz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:51 pm

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... U-handling

sQeetz · Post by **sQeetz** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:56 pm

cadiz wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:51 pm https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... U-handling

Exactly

How many threads are used per Live track?
Live uses one thread to process a signal path. A signal path is a single chain of audio flow. In tracks where instrument or effect racks are used, with multiple chains in parallel, Live may use one thread per chain depending on how CPU-intensive each chain may be. If two tracks are "chained" by routing, for instance by a side-chain routing, they are considered dependent tracks and count as one signal path. Any dependent set of tracks will use one thread each.

Biome_Digital · Post by **Biome_Digital** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:04 pm

I have a MacBook Air from a few years ago. Not used for audio, though. What Apple desktop computer would one get if:

A - one wanted to have a powerful computer capable of running a load of cpu hungry synths and plugins.
B - doesn't want to spend $4000 on the top of the line MAC.
C - wants it to be good/powerful/compatible for the next few years at least.
D - need 1 or 2 TB hard drive space

Is there a sweet spot somewhere for price and power?

Etienne1973 · Post by **Etienne1973** » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:07 pm

Biome_Digital wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:04 pm I have a MacBook Air from a few years ago. Not used for audio, though. What Apple desktop computer would one get if:

A - one wanted to have a powerful computer capable of running a load of cpu hungry synths and plugins.
B - doesn't want to spend $4000 on the top of the line MAC.
C - wants it to be good/powerful/compatible for the next few years at least.

Is there a sweet spot somewhere for price and power?

Mac mini M1

Apple announce new 14" & 16" MBP with M1Pro and M1Max