Fabfilter Pro-C 3

[muki]

how do i access instance view ?
can't find a button...

is it possible only via Pro-Q ?

[t.o.t.s.]

Only because someone asked, I like the autogain in the C2/C3 more so that other comps. It's fast and (for me) predictable. Like a lot of people here I have a million comps and I find their version of autogain better than a lot of other versions of autogain. None of them do what my ears want but these to me are predictable which is basically all I want.

[oobesan]

I don't know jack about DSP, but I'd think with input and output meters you coul calculate the delta over an "Auto-Gain Listen window" in LUFS-M or something and try to match those values.

I think it's the nomenclature that's confusing.

Auto gain in a compressor is most often just something that compensates for gain reduction. ie. Auto makeup. It's internal bookeeping that just tracks and compensates for the control signal.

I think that's different from the idea of using perceptual loudness metrics like LUFS which has a specific loudness in mind. I'd call that Loudness matching rather than autogain.

Trackcomp has both auto makeup gain and auto levelling. The auto levelling is still not LUFS based but conceptually closer to it and calculated on RMS. LUFS M's integration is still too long to use as a compressor. 400ms is an eternity in compressor world!

They are also kind of separate ideas. Auto makeup is essentially a function of the compression process and auto levelling/level matching is rooted in perception.

Personally I never use autogain on compressors because fundamentally compression IS level change and autogain kind of works against that. It feels very crutchy to me.

If you just want to compress the signal without changing the level, auto gain is supposed to do that for you. I mean, why would anyone consider that to be a bad thing? But the autogain on Pro C 2 just doesn't work. In fact, it just makes your signal louder. Load the plugin, in default preset, Clean mode, Wet gain a 0 dB, and the output is magically 1.5 dB louder. Ha ha like wtf. Since this plugin is 10 years old, I assume it's from the era where it was easier to fool everyone that their plugin made your track sound better, when it was just making it louder. It's stupid this (reportedly) isn't fixed in C 3.

The best autogain feature I have heard is any of the Newfangled Audio mixing plugins. It's perfect.

[misterandy]

how do i access instance view ?
can't find a button...

is it possible only via Pro-Q ?

IMG_2409.jpeg

[NAD]

If you just want to compress the signal without changing the level, auto gain is supposed to do that for you. I mean, why would anyone consider that to be a bad thing?

I gotta say, if I'm understanding you correctly I think I would consider it a bad thing. Please forgive and correct me if I misunderstood, but what I think you are asking for is an auto-gain feature that would change the makeup gain dynamically based on the input signal. That in essence is additional compression, though perhaps quite slow, that some might rather refer to as "leveling". The problem with that is you would effectively have no control of this additional compression as it's just an on-off switch for a mysterious unknown algorithm with a preset configuration working behind the scenes. If your input signal is not consistent enough throughout the entire program material, you would likely be dealing with changes in level that are unpredictable at best and likely undesirable. Countering that by automating or somehow normalizing the input would be cumbersome and confusing, and might even require additional compensating automation on the output. The alternative of course is calculating a static makeup gain based on the current settings, with that calculation having been calibrated on some test signal deemed to be as representative as possible of basically every possible signal anyone is likely to feed the compressor. That's obviously impossible to get right as the exact same settings are likely to require different makeup gain for different signals. It's therefore far from perfect, but considering the alternative "dynamic" option it's also in my opinion the better choice. You'll usually still have to adjust the makeup gain anyway but it might at least get you closer to begin with. As bmanic suggested, that's probably what FabFilter (and likely many others as well) are doing. I will say, I have encountered a third option with a button that will let you sample some representative section of the signal for a few seconds and then set the makeup gain dial to a (static) position calculated by preforming some level-matching algorithm on that snippet with the current settings. Fircomp comes to mind but there may be others. Not sure what Newfangled are doing but I'm about to go check it out!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

how do i access instance view ?
can't find a button...

is it possible only via Pro-Q ?

IMG_2409.jpeg

It would be convenient though if the Instance List could be accessed from more plugins. If I'm tweaking Pro-C parameters, and want to glance at the instance list, it's much more convenient if I don't have to close it then open Pro-Q just to see the instance list. It would be more Channel Strip-esque if it was available to open everywhere.

[Voxon]

how do i access instance view ?
can't find a button...

is it possible only via Pro-Q ?

IMG_2409.jpeg

It would be convenient though if the Instance List could be accessed from more plugins. If I'm tweaking Pro-C parameters, and want to glance at the instance list, it's much more convenient if I don't have to close it then open Pro-Q just to see the instance list. It would be more Channel Strip-esque if it was available to open everywhere.

Strongly agree.

Once in Q4 it still took me a while to find it. In case anyone else is trying, open full screen view (of Q4) first, then click on the track name at the centre of the bottom bar. I hope this helps.

[coroknight]

Ok the wavy faders aren't just visually annoying, but the horizontal movement required to engage them is ergonomically annoying too.

I’m not at my computer right now but do you actually have to move your mouse in a wave motion or do you just *think* you do?

Try to move them horizontally and see if they do the same thing.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I’m not at my computer right now but do you actually have to move your mouse in a wave motion or do you just *think* you do?

Try to move them horizontally and see if they do the same thing.

It's a horizontal movement. Not a wavy movement. But I just really dislike horizontal faders on a UI. I have bad wrists and I find that movement aggravating.

[muki]

thanks for the clarification

so, to be clear:
pro-c is advertised with a feature
but this feature is only accessible if you have (bought) another product
correct ?
kinda strange ?

example:
i use several pro-c instances
to view them in instnace-overview i have to create a dummy insert of q-4
just to see the overview....

sorry for ranting, but i find this strange...

Once in Q4 it still took me a while to find it. In case anyone else is trying, open full screen view (of Q4) first,

no need for fullscreen view - at least here - v4.10
the "stereo out" switch button is also accessible in all views and sizes

[PieBerger]

thanks for the clarification

so, to be clear:
pro-c is advertised with a feature
but this feature is only accessible if you have (bought) another product
correct ?
kinda strange ?

example:
i use several pro-c instances
to view them in instnace-overview i have to create a dummy insert of q-4
just to see the overview....

sorry for ranting, but i find this strange...

I don't think it's that strange. Instance List came to Pro-Q 4 first, so it makes sense that any initial expansion of the ecosystem would take place from within it. It's a great feature, so you would think that with enough development time it will be implemented per plugin, but who knows!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Yeah, I think the Instance List will be expanded to other products. It seems very obvious to do that. The question is when they'll get around to it. Might be a bigger effort than it seems from the outside.

[rod_zero]

I’m not at my computer right now but do you actually have to move your mouse in a wave motion or do you just *think* you do?

Try to move them horizontally and see if they do the same thing.

It's a horizontal movement. Not a wavy movement. But I just really dislike horizontal faders on a UI. I have bad wrists and I find that movement aggravating.

thos it responds to scroll wheel? I almost never use mouse movement for control nowadays

[tumface]

Yeah, it responds to scroll wheel.

[E_Anderson]

If Pro-C autogain is static, that's good, in my opinion. I used to turn off Auto-Makeup in Presswerk but now I leave it on -- it so often reduces the amount of makeup needed considerably, even if it sometimes overshoots. No "swimming" input-riding internal threshold. Just works.

Something I'd like is allowing the user to expand the sidechain EQ further vertically, as a function of resizing mostly vertically. As it is I basically have to hold the shift key while adjusting HPF Q or else a muscle twitch takes out 3dB, it seems. I'd prefer that over an increasingly giant waveform/curve preview.

Is it bad that I feel drawn to Pro-C just for the CPU usage? 3-4x lower than Cenozoix (which I still hardly use compared to Presswerk...). The character and curve modes, too and the sidechain is the best.

I just really dislike horizontal faders on a UI. I have bad wrists and I find that movement aggravating.

Same here. No injury but I find it much less comfortable -- but I just opt to move the mouse horizontally. Almost like halfway pressing the shift key!