KVR Audio

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:51 am

TonyVegas wrote:
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
TonyVegas wrote:Interesting theory. I've never before heard of a musicians credibility being based on the number of notes he plays at once. Anyway, I play loads of chords and never have any problem with Spire. Even with long tailed ambient pads with many voices and lots of modulation. Who knows. Maybe I'm just a better programer than you lot.
If everyone else is finding spire to be cpu heavy (myself included with an i7 quad core laptop from last year) and you are not, then my guess is that you are probably using patches that are much more simple than the majority of users. Nothing wrong with that. It is possible to make low cpu patches by using only certain features, but most people create and use patches that make use of more functions I guess, like many factory patches.
I don't believe that "most people" use synths that way. Nor do I believe that "the majority" are having any problems with Spire. A select group of people, the kind of people who tend to hang out at KVR, "test" synths by piling on as much modulation and fx as allowed with no interest in making useful or pleasant sounds.

These people have CPU troubles because they actively seek them out by programing the synth with the express intention of seeing if they can break it. And that methodology is highly misleading to normal users, who have no CPU problems at all. I call this the "KVR-Tard-Factor".

Or maybe it is not well optimized on Mac.

With only 2 of the Osc's, no FX, 1 Filter I get crackles with a long release pad sound. That is not an excessive sound or done just to push the cpu. Turn everything on and 2 notes is crackling.

With Sylenth I couldn't make it crackle if I tried.

V0RT3X · Post by **V0RT3X** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 2:02 am

Remember folks, don't feed the trolls.

Its akin to feeding pigeons in the park. They tend to stick around after and shit all over the place.

Orbit-50 · Post by **Orbit-50** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:58 am

Spire has the ability to nuke my i7 in a lot of cases. Not all but a decent amount of presets do this particularly when playing heavy chords or very high release time presets. I found a solution though. It's real easy. Just render. I would never in a million years get rid of Spire. It's just that damn good that I will find a way to use it to it's fullest potential. I don't give a shit if I can only play one note at a time with some presets (some Aiyn Zahev patches for example cough cough!!!)

Just render the track and free your cpu. End of story. It's amazing what you can lay down with Spire and the render in place function in Cubase Pro 8. It's astounding! Just enjoy the fact that we live in a time where we have easy access to these great plugins. I really don't see a problem with Spire. It's one of the best VSTi ever created. Thanks Reveal Sound for creating this plugin.

.-.

Gadget Fiend · Post by **Gadget Fiend** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:16 am

TonyVegas wrote: I don't believe that "most people" use synths that way. Nor do I believe that "the majority" are having any problems with Spire. A select group of people, the kind of people who tend to hang out at KVR, "test" synths by piling on as much modulation and fx as allowed with no interest in making useful or pleasant sounds.

These people have CPU troubles because they actively seek them out by programing the synth with the express intention of seeing if they can break it. And that methodology is highly misleading to normal users, who have no CPU problems at all. I call this the "KVR-Tard-Factor".

No, when using softsynths it's almost mandatory to use as many oscillators/layers as the plugin offers so as to get a fuller sound. Subtle modulations can often help in this regard. But that takes processing power.

I guess if you're ok with thin, lifeless synth plugin patches (which make up the majority of softsynth patches btw,) then more power to you. I prefer to bypass the issue altogether and use hardware synths. They sound way, WAY better and don't use any of my CPU (which I can then devote to convolution reverbs and other processor-intensive FX plugins).

Touch The Universe · Post by **Touch The Universe** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:20 am

I prefer to bypass the issue altogether and use hardware synths. They sound way, WAY better

Such as...post an audio example please.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:37 am

Orbit-50 wrote:Spire has the ability to nuke my i7 in a lot of cases. Not all but a decent amount of presets do this particularly when playing heavy chords or very high release time presets. I found a solution though. It's real easy. Just render. I would never in a million years get rid of Spire. It's just that damn good that I will find a way to use it to it's fullest potential. I don't give a shit if I can only play one note at a time with some presets (some Aiyn Zahev patches for example cough cough!!!) Just render the track and free your cpu. End of story. It's amazing what you can lay down with Spire and the render in place function in Cubase Pro 8. It's astounding! Just enjoy the fact that we live in a time where we have easy access to these great plugins. I really don't see a problem with Spire. It's one of the best VSTi ever created. Thanks Reveal Sound for creating this plugin.

.-.

Hey, if that works for you great... Diva also uses a lot of CPU but for me the multi-core option makes all the difference. It means I can play what I want in realtime... and then bounce.

With Spire, I simply cannot play a lot of presets in realtime. Which means I don't know what it actually sounds like until I render it. Then to make any edit means re-rendering to hear it. That just sucks the joy out of actually playing music.

I think I would have fun with Spire otherwise.

Gadget Fiend · Post by **Gadget Fiend** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:29 am

mysticvibes wrote:
I prefer to bypass the issue altogether and use hardware synths. They sound way, WAY better
Such as...post an audio example please.

Huh? That's like asking for proof that the sun is going to come up tomorrow. It's just the state of things. If you don't recognize that synth plugins sound like crap for the most part (but have their benefits in terms of convenience and cost,) I'm not sure what evidence would convince you of their inferior sound. If you can't hear the difference, you can't hear the difference. That doesn't change the fact that there is a HUGE difference.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:41 am

Gadget Fiend wrote:
mysticvibes wrote:
I prefer to bypass the issue altogether and use hardware synths. They sound way, WAY better
Such as...post an audio example please.
Huh? That's like asking for proof that the sun is going to come up tomorrow. It's just the state of things. If you don't recognize that synth plugins sound like crap for the most part (but have their benefits in terms of convenience and cost,) I'm not sure what evidence would convince you of their inferior sound. If you can't hear the difference, you can't hear the difference. That doesn't change the fact that there is a HUGE difference.

What hardware synth?

Orbit-50 · Post by **Orbit-50** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:52 pm

pdxindy wrote:
Orbit-50 wrote:Just render...
Hey, if that works for you great... Diva also uses a lot of CPU but for me the multi-core option makes all the difference. It means I can play what I want in realtime... and then bounce.
With Spire, I simply cannot play a lot of presets in realtime. Which means I don't know what it actually sounds like until I render it. Then to make any edit means re-rendering to hear it. That just sucks the joy out of actually playing music.
I think I would have fun with Spire otherwise.

Understandable. I have a couple of those presets also. It sucks. I don't know what you're running, but you might have to upgrade your CPU to take advantage of Spire. It's worth it man. At least to me it is.

.-.

TonyVegas · Post by **TonyVegas** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:39 pm

Yeah, it's time to let Granny have her computer back. Shovel a few walks, mow a few yards, save up a few bucks and get yourself a decent PC. It's a whole new world when you start using modern computers.

Gadget Fiend · Post by **Gadget Fiend** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 4:51 pm

pdxindy wrote: What hardware synth?

As is clearly obvious to anyone who has actually heard any of the hardware synths mentioned below, there is not a single synth plugin that sounds as good as its hardware equivalent.

Analog-Style Subtractive Synths
This goes without saying. Diva, etc. are wannabe imitators compared to something like my MKS-80. Even my Prophet '08 rack blows every analog modeled synth plugin out of the water. The only synth plugin that sounds even remotely analog is the TAL U-NO-LX (and that's because it's modeling a really simple synth).

Wavetable Synths
The Microwave and Microwave XT crush every wavetable plugin including everyone's new fanboy favorite Serum (which is way too clean, sterile, and uninteresting sounding despite its excellent interface).

Hybrid Synths
The Prophet VS, DSI Evolver Series, Shruthi/Ambika, and even the Korg DW-8000 destroy the few synth plugins in this vein. (The Arturia Prophet-V is a complete joke in comparison.)

FM Synths
The DX7 series sounds noticeably fuller and warmer than FM8. Even the Nord Lead 3 (which is not strictly an FM synth but which has very capable FM synthesis features,) is a better option than FM8 and its ilk.

ROMplers
Although the synth patches in Omnisphere sound arguably better than the synth patches in something like the Roland Integra or Korg Kronos, the Integra and Kronos offer a much broader range of sounds including loads of acoustic instruments and cool hybrid synth/acoustic patches.

"Dance Synths"
This is the only category where it's even close. Sylenth and Spire do a decent job of covering the same terrain as a Virus. But the TI is still a better sounding synth AND doesn't chew through your CPU using a single patch.

Done and done.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:07 pm

Gadget Fiend wrote: As is clearly obvious to anyone who has actually heard any of the hardware synths mentioned below, there is not a single synth plugin that sounds as good as its hardware equivalent.

You know, there's loads of people here using hardware and software which will disagree with you. Actually, i don't see a reason at all, why a soft synth should sound inferior to a hardware VA. Different, yes, better or worse, no. Pretty subjective anyway if something sounds "better". I don't get why people claim Diva is the best sounding soft synth either. What if i don't like its, or the modelled synth's sound? Of what use is the level of detail then? Or what if I don't need that level of detail of analog modelling at all?

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:17 pm

I have yet to see an Objective-o-meter that can prove that one is "better" than another.

Can someone link me to this device please?

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:19 pm

TonyVegas wrote:Yeah, it's time to let Granny have her computer back. Shovel a few walks, mow a few yards, save up a few bucks and get yourself a decent PC. It's a whole new world when you start using modern computers.

Well...maybe they do need to?

Orbit-50 · Post by **Orbit-50** » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:29 pm

trimph1 wrote:I have yet to see an Objective-o-meter that can prove that one is "better" than another.
Can someone link me to this device please?

Well for one, I've heard many listeners (men, women and children) state that if they so much as hear a song that was made using softsynths rather than hardware, they immediately reject it in protest and complain to the record company about having the audacity to produce the song using inferior sound generating apparatus. There is actually going to be a march on Washington this year about this very subject IIRC.

.-.

Spire Synthesizer