PG8X (inspired by the JX8P): new beta version uploaded

[beely]

One of the things I'm quite interested in is the JX10-style patches.

You can more or less do it now, using a layer of two PG-8X's - it will load JX-10 Tone data, so all you need to do is decode the Patch data (eg, in a JX-10 editor program) to see which tones are used, together with the additional parameters - split layer, split points etc, and recreate them. Chase will need a delay or MIDI processor I guess.

I'm holding off looking at this as firstly, my main host (Logic) requires the AU version (I'm currently using PG-8X in another sub-host, I haven't had any success in wrapping the PG-8X vst -> au format, it doesn't work), so any patch-building will I do would be temporary - and secondly, because Martin has already indicated that he wants to do the JX-10 style dual layout at some point - I don't know if PG-8X will stay a "pure" JX-8P, and he will make a second "PG-10X" to support the dual-layer architecture, or whether he will just extend PG-8X and let it be both.

I really like this instrument, it sounds quite unique and it's a vibe that I've not really seen in any other instrument out there. Really appreciate the efforts that have gone into this...!

[martin_l]

Thanks for the GUI option.

Still considering whether to keep that DIY style switch, or whether to try to squeeze in a JX style slider. Not quite sure yet where it could fit...

[martin_l]

More on my previous bug report. After restarting the system I got crackling even in normal VCA ENV mode, so I exited Reaper, restarted OS again, and now I don't get any crackling, or just very occasionally. It doesn't matter though that I restarted the OS because it was freshly started before. It seems like this is one of those "evasive bugs"? I suspect it might have something to do with GUI refreshing frequency or ASIO priority, as it sounds that way, and it's not CPU as it consumes just up to 2% on my laptop. Could be DC offset somewhere in the audio path, too. I tried changing ASIO buffer setting with no effect.

I get a pretty hefty pg8x.log file from running it. Seems like this version still has logging/debugging turned on? Is there any way to turn it off? I haven't noticed any option for that in the pg8x.ini.

Cheers!

I guess the crackling is related to the huge log file. This is a leftover from my debugging. I thought I switched it off in all modules, but noticed now, that I missed one. Will be fixed in the next release.

Anyway, I would expect that the constant disk access could give rise to some problems.

Cheers,
Martin

[martin_l]

One of the things I'm quite interested in is the JX10-style patches.

You can more or less do it now, using a layer of two PG-8X's - it will load JX-10 Tone data, so all you need to do is decode the Patch data (eg, in a JX-10 editor program) to see which tones are used, together with the additional parameters - split layer, split points etc, and recreate them. Chase will need a delay or MIDI processor I guess.

I'm holding off looking at this as firstly, my main host (Logic) requires the AU version (I'm currently using PG-8X in another sub-host, I haven't had any success in wrapping the PG-8X vst -> au format, it doesn't work), so any patch-building will I do would be temporary - and secondly, because Martin has already indicated that he wants to do the JX-10 style dual layout at some point - I don't know if PG-8X will stay a "pure" JX-8P, and he will make a second "PG-10X" to support the dual-layer architecture, or whether he will just extend PG-8X and let it be both.

I really like this instrument, it sounds quite unique and it's a vibe that I've not really seen in any other instrument out there. Really appreciate the efforts that have gone into this...!

Just bought myself a MKS-70....

Plans are to keep the PG-8X as it is, and develop a (possibly commercial) MLS-70, which will include all playing modes (dual, split, chase, x-fade, etc.) But don't hold your breath. It might take a while until I get around to do that.

Cheers,
Martin

[beely]

Nice, thanks Martin for letting us know your rough roadmap.

Will be more than happy to give you some money for the effort, once we're there!

[martin_l]

Minor update posted:

- minor GUI fixes
- log file switched off

[martin_l]

Also i don't know if it is a bug or if the GUI works this way, but in REAPER i can't undo any changes i make to the synth, to the DAW the changes simply don't exist.
It is a very minor thing though, PG8X is great anyway.

That is strange. It works for me.

Have you checked whether you enabled "Save minimal undo states" or something like that in the compatibility settings of reaper?

Cheers,
Martin

[Yeager]

Hi Martin,

The new one (04-01-2016) introduces an enormous DC offset that was not there in the 29-04-2015 version.
Check the init preset, there is a big hump in the frequency spectrum from 0-30Hz.

Also this new one is about 6dB lower in volume, am I correct ?

<Skip this>Edit: No its not, its my limiter kicking in caused by the DC offset.
Edit2: Yes it is, I put the new on +6dB Global gain.</Skip this>

Thanks for the update(s).

[martin_l]

Hi Martin,

The new one (04-01-2016) introduces an enormous DC offset that was not there in the 29-04-2015 version.
Check the init preset, there is a big hump in the frequency spectrum from 0-30Hz.

Yes, I have changes something in the HP filter which sits before the Ring modulator (there is also one in the hardware) and I might have to adjust some values.

Also this new one is about 6dB lower in volume, am I correct ?
Edit: No its not, its my limiter kicking in caused by the DC offset.

Thanks for the update(s).

Please, check the "global gain" setting in the SETTINGS panel. You might want to increase that. This value will be globally stored in the pg8x.ini file. I have taken down the volume a bit, as most patches were clipping on my system (REAPER).

CHeers,
Martin

[Yeager]

Yes, I have changes something in the HP filter which sits before the Ring modulator (there is also one in the hardware) and I might have to adjust some values.

Please, check the "global gain" setting in the SETTINGS panel. You might want to increase that. This value will be globally stored in the pg8x.ini file. I have taken down the volume a bit, as most patches were clipping on my system (REAPER).

CHeers,
Martin

It's about -4dB AFAI can see, but the Global Gain is NOT saved in the ini, neither in the project (FLStudio).
EDIT : or REAPER.
Greets

[martin_l]

It's about -4dB AFAI can see, but the Global Gain is NOT saved in the ini, neither in the project (FLStudio).
EDIT : or REAPER.
Greets

My bad about the saving. Currently, it is read only. You can specify, e.g. GLOBAL_GAIN = HIGH.
In the next version it will also be saved.

Do you really have the impression that it is generally too low, even with high gain?

I was a bit confused about your edits in your last post. Did you mean that the reduced gain was due to the limiter?

Cheers,
Martin

[Yeager]

It's about -4dB AFAI can see, but the Global Gain is NOT saved in the ini, neither in the project (FLStudio).
EDIT : or REAPER.
Greets

My bad about the saving. Currently, it is read only. You can specify, e.g. GLOBAL_GAIN = HIGH.
In the next version it will also be saved.

Do you really have the impression that it is generally too low, even with high gain?

I was a bit confused about your edits in your last post. Did you mean that the reduced gain was due to the limiter?

Cheers,
Martin

No,no it's OK with High Gain +6dB. ( But my old projects sound very strange.... )

When I was testing the DC offset I thought the volume was lower even though I upped the gain to +6dB, but I was wrong, because the limiter kicked in or something like that, sorry for the confusion.

Now go to work and remove the DC offset !

Cheers.

[DuX]

In the mean time you can just put a High Pass Filter set to 20-30Hz after PG8X and problem with the DC offset solved.
GVST happens to have a beautiful, simple, low on CPU plugin to tackle the problem: http://www.gvst.co.uk/ Cheers!

[fmr]

Just bought myself a MKS-70....

Plans are to keep the PG-8X as it is, and develop a (possibly commercial) MLS-70, which will include all playing modes (dual, split, chase, x-fade, etc.) But don't hold your breath. It might take a while until I get around to do that.

Cheers,
Martin

Just do it. I'll be in (but please, do not cut polyphony in dual/split, etc.). Also, some other bells and whistles (like defferent behaviours for the envelopes, different models for the filters, real PWM, etc.) would be welcome. Not mandatory, but welcome.

[beely]

Just do it. I'll be in (but please, do not cut polyphony in dual/split, etc.). Also, some other bells and whistles (like defferent behaviours for the envelopes, different models for the filters, real PWM, etc.) would be welcome. Not mandatory, but welcome.

People always want more, I guess, it's part of their nature.

Yes, those things would make the synth able to do more, but it would also complicate things and add in a bunch of character that is away from the originals. I quite like a thing to just be a thing, be focused, and stop trying to be all things to everybody.

Where it makes sense to add in some extra functionality that wasn't in the originals, without making the experience poorer (over-complicated etc), then I'm for it, but for me, at least, a good emulation is the goal - other things can do, well, other things...

(I'm not knocking your opinion, btw, just adding my own while you mention it... )