KVR Audio

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:31 am

Tronam wrote:What I'm most curious about though is if Bitwig will introduce some new approaches to music making workflow that I haven't seen before. I think that's where we're going to be seeing the most innovation in the future.

^If you're wondering if it will be as different as live was compared to its competitors when it came out I don't think there's anything of that sort there for you. Granted I have not used it but I have been watching it so close I feel like I know how to use it. It seems to be basically a streamlined live. There are things in there that will could definitely lead to a better workflow for some, like more harmony between linear writing and clip launching due to the clip launcher in the arrange, and the ability to edit multitrack midi, but nothing paradigm changing I don't think.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:36 am

It's going to be "another" host

Some things are gonna knock your socks off, some things are not going to be there yet.

I do wish they'd release the damn thing though

Tronam · Post by **Tronam** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:57 am

Ogopogo wrote:
Tronam wrote:What I'm most curious about though is if Bitwig will introduce some new approaches to music making workflow that I haven't seen before. I think that's where we're going to be seeing the most innovation in the future.
^If you're wondering if it will be as different as live was compared to its competitors when it came out I don't think there's anything of that sort there for you. Granted I have not used it but I have been watching it so close I feel like I know how to use it. It seems to be basically a streamlined live. There are things in there that will could definitely lead to a better workflow for some, like more harmony between linear writing and clip launching due to the clip launcher in the arrange, and the ability to edit multitrack midi, but nothing paradigm changing I don't think.

That's an interesting point. In the early days of Live, not only was it quite different from anything that came before it, but it was seriously narrow in its scope. Arrangement view along with MIDI sequencing and VST support didn't even arrive until Live 4, right?

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:07 am

Well, pretty much. But let's be honest.......

a) that was a LONG time ago
b) originally, live was a loop based product

Times have changed, and though a TON of people want 4/4 "beatz", there is quite a bit of market out there for more.

I find live to be relatively good for many things. There isn't much I can't do. The PDC (which apparently bitwig is better than) is a potential problem for each song. But feature wise, live does a bunch of things all the "big" companies do.

My biggest concern if I was ever to go bitwig, is that I'd expect the basic functions to be there, but with some steroids. I don't think that is unreasonable..........clearly I'm not speaking for some others.

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:35 am

http://www.musicradar.com/us/tuition/te ... ive-357837

According to that Live 1 did have the arrangment view and vst, but no midi. I hadn't arrived on the scene back then, I just thought it was the first popular daw to offer something like the session view.

It's funny that originally it had no midi but now some people think of it as only being for midi guys.

Tronam · Post by **Tronam** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:45 am

Ogopogo wrote:http://www.musicradar.com/us/tuition/te ... ive-357837

According to that Live 1 did have the arrangment view and vst, but no midi. I hadn't arrived on the scene back then, I just thought it was the really popular daw to offer something like the session view.

It's funny that originally it had no midi but now some people think of it as only being for midi guys.

Ah, I see. So it had arrangement view, but it was exclusively audio with limited VST support for effects only. Live 4 is when all the instrument stuff was finally incorporated. I suppose prior to this Sony ACID would've been one of Ableton's main audio loop arranger competitors.

Tronam · Post by **Tronam** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:52 am

hibidy wrote: My biggest concern if I was ever to go bitwig, is that I'd expect the basic functions to be there, but with some steroids. I don't think that is unreasonable..........clearly I'm not speaking for some others.

No, I'd imagine you speak for a lot of others. I just have pretty modest expectations based on past experience. It may yet become a "holy grail" DAW, but it won't be happening this cycle. I'm more intrigued by innovative, forward thinking ideas though. Most of the stuff mentioned in this thread will probably come in time, but I'm more curious if they plan to evolve our current approaches to computer based music production.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:07 am

As for the innovation, bitwig is just a inferior(at the stage of 1.0 release) copy of Live (& their Feature Wishlist forum)...

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 9:07 am

Tronam wrote:
hibidy wrote: My biggest concern if I was ever to go bitwig, is that I'd expect the basic functions to be there, but with some steroids. I don't think that is unreasonable..........clearly I'm not speaking for some others.
No, I'd imagine you speak for a lot of others. I just have pretty modest expectations based on past experience. It may yet become a "holy grail" DAW, but it won't be happening this cycle. I'm more intrigued by innovative, forward thinking ideas though. Most of the stuff mentioned in this thread will probably come in time, but I'm more curious if they plan to evolve our current approaches to computer based music production.

I'm not looking for a 'holy grail'... I just want to be able to use my existing plug-ins... That seems like a modest expectation to me.

ThomasHelzle · Post by **ThomasHelzle** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:06 am

The human mind is a curious thing.

If in fear, out of nothing it creates monsters far worse than anything we've ever encountered.
If in hope, out of nothing it creates the most glorious castles in the air, golden, perfect, full of joy.

If the first turns out to be a dream, there's some kind of relieve, but a suspicion remains.
What's that moving in the dark over there?

If the second turns out to be a dream, there is a deep feeling of being robbed, even anger and aggression.
You already had plans for the weekend in that castle!

I learn a lot in the course of this thread.
How much we all dream of that perfect Host.
How relentless we demand that this time it is IT.
How we fill out the void of not-knowing with whatever dream we have.
And how let down we feel whenever our dream isn't met.

More than Hollywood ever was, this is indeed the dream-industry.

I wish you all a good weekend!

Cheers,

Tom

crazyfiltertweaker · Post by **crazyfiltertweaker** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:57 am

do all clips, which are already in the arrangement, change if I change one of the clips in the arrangement or in the mixer view?

is also the not clip-based automation following the clips if moving parts?

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:52 pm

[DELETED]

Ogopogo · Post by **Ogopogo** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:12 pm

Comping and take lanes are the same thing. Notation and dedicated drum editor are certainly not standard. Event list is not needed for many or most workflows. And do you have solid info about snap to zero, elastic pitch, or "hybrid performance buffer?"

This is why you are getting shit, because you are jumping to conclusions, making it out to be way worse than it is and only thinking of your uses.

There is no info on price.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:16 pm

Without elastic you can't stretch audio... I can't even think bitwig can't do it. And
>their sort of in built note expression (? For the future) , and safe plugin crashing

they are already in Cubase, FL I can think of.

lfm · Post by **lfm** » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:18 pm

ThomasHelzle wrote:The human mind is a curious thing.

If in fear, out of nothing it creates monsters far worse than anything we've ever encountered.
If in hope, out of nothing it creates the most glorious castles in the air, golden, perfect, full of joy.

If the first turns out to be a dream, there's some kind of relieve, but a suspicion remains.
What's that moving in the dark over there?

If the second turns out to be a dream, there is a deep feeling of being robbed, even anger and aggression.
You already had plans for the weekend in that castle!

I learn a lot in the course of this thread.
How much we all dream of that perfect Host.
How relentless we demand that this time it is IT.
How we fill out the void of not-knowing with whatever dream we have.
And how let down we feel whenever our dream isn't met.

More than Hollywood ever was, this is indeed the dream-industry.

I wish you all a good weekend!

Cheers,

Tom

+1

Looking at daws they really are close to complete after maybe 8-10 years. If not before they start adding a lot of bling-bling as plugins and synths to attract new users.

Before that you might target a specific use - not as a general purpose daw.

Don't expect too much after 1-3 years development only.

The All In One Source Bitwig Information & Speculation Thread