What is the difference between music and noise? [years-dead slappyfight revived]

[xtp]

I class standing next to a concrete cutting saw as noise.



In my case: Volume + frequency = noise

just wondering, but as this is from damage to your ears, if someone used said concrete cutting saw as a low level background sound would you be ok with it?
is it just the fact that being stood next to it makes it around the threshold of pain to most people without protective measures?

Hi vurt,

I am a printer and have been for 30 years, I have industry related hearing damage combined with listening to music far too loud for too many years when I was young.

Machinery can be rythmic, sitting in a train for instance, printing machines are rhythmic, many things are I guess.

Contrary to that I have listened to white noise and found the sound inspirational.

I am not sure if a concrete saw could sound acceptable to my ears at any volume because it is generally pitched in a frequency range i find disturbing at minimal levels. Similar to a dentist drills pitch, although that could be associative.

But then if you produced a synth sound, or guitar sound in the same frequency it would also irritate me.

I have in the past ripped songs from the cd, eq'd, notched or compressed certain frequencies and then reburnt a copy to cd to listen to in the stereo.

We all have differetn hearing and perception I guess, interesting discussion though.

[Km7]

I don't find white noise that inspirational, but I find TV noise ('snowflakes') quite interesting.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Intention? If it is intention, then is there no such thing as unintended music?

Or is it in the ear of the beholder...in other words, is music a way of hearing?

Ear Ov The Beholder IMHO

Nekro

[eduardo_b]

Intention? If it is intention, then is there no such thing as unintended music?

Or is it in the ear of the beholder...in other words, is music a way of hearing?

Ear Ov The Beholder IMHO

Too simple.

[hibidy]

Intention? If it is intention, then is there no such thing as unintended music?

Or is it in the ear of the beholder...in other words, is music a way of hearing?

Ear Ov The Beholder IMHO

Too simple.

Exactly, INSTANT FAIL!

[jancivil]

if I may quote vurt from a few years ago..

'music isn't what you hear, it's how you listen'

i did say that, and i still fully agree.

and therefore ergo and whatnot, if you intend to listen to "accidental music"(the sound of birds, wind through trees, local machinery...), you then become the composer, so intent is indeed the forebearer of musical goodness...

When I listen to birds, I am listening to the bird. If I frame that for you or you, then I am 'der komponist'. That's an essential step to satisfy... my ego? *Bird* is nonplussed by this.

A musical bird (that isn't all birds mind you) understands music innately, (the term 'accidental' here is I think a puny human concept; I know exactly one horn player {Urs Leimgruber} that can compete with 'virtuous bird intent' if you have to have it that way) and does not need me to give it 'musical goodness'.

Putting a frame on it is conceptual, and I would say that is what a composition is. The last bird I dug couldn't be arsed with such a concept, it was too busy making music in the purest sense. Which never lacked in musical goodness.

[vurt]

(the term 'accidental' here is I think a puny human concept;

as is the term "music" hence birds do not make music.

also, i like the fact you think "birdsong" is free of ego, thats most amusing.

[vurt]

I class standing next to a concrete cutting saw as noise.



In my case: Volume + frequency = noise

just wondering, but as this is from damage to your ears, if someone used said concrete cutting saw as a low level background sound would you be ok with it?
is it just the fact that being stood next to it makes it around the threshold of pain to most people without protective measures?

Hi vurt,

I am a printer and have been for 30 years, I have industry related hearing damage combined with listening to music far too loud for too many years when I was young.

Machinery can be rythmic, sitting in a train for instance, printing machines are rhythmic, many things are I guess.

Contrary to that I have listened to white noise and found the sound inspirational.

I am not sure if a concrete saw could sound acceptable to my ears at any volume because it is generally pitched in a frequency range i find disturbing at minimal levels. Similar to a dentist drills pitch, although that could be associative.

But then if you produced a synth sound, or guitar sound in the same frequency it would also irritate me.

I have in the past ripped songs from the cd, eq'd, notched or compressed certain frequencies and then reburnt a copy to cd to listen to in the stereo.

We all have differetn hearing and perception I guess, interesting discussion though.

i can only say im sorry you have any hearing damage at all.

thanks for the detailed reply though

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Intention? If it is intention, then is there no such thing as unintended music?

Or is it in the ear of the beholder...in other words, is music a way of hearing?

Ear Ov The Beholder IMHO

Too simple.

Exactly, INSTANT FAIL!

I am the biggest fail to ever walk the earth

[hibidy]

Intention? If it is intention, then is there no such thing as unintended music?

Or is it in the ear of the beholder...in other words, is music a way of hearing?

Ear Ov The Beholder IMHO

Too simple.

Exactly, INSTANT FAIL!

I am the biggest fail to ever walk the earth

No no no! My joke was not meant in that way at all!

[Dr.Wu]

the same difference as between chaos and order

[tomg]

Random accidental noise is not an art and it's something you do not usually enjoy. You can't really find music in noise. It's just noise. You can make music with noise but then it's not a random accident.

[Meffy]

While the box is still unopened, it contains noise. As soon as it is opened, the Waves function collapses and what is inside is either the Grateful Dead or Ableton Live.

[hakey]

You can't really find music in noise.

I've seen spangled ravers dancing to roadworks, and other 'random' noise. Does that count?

[Ogg Vorbis]

Random accidental noise is not an art and it's something you do not usually enjoy. You can't really find music in noise. It's just noise. You can make music with noise but then it's not a random accident.

What if a composer sets up parameters for random noise to happen in a recital hall environment full of audience members?