Wow, Rack Extensions are expensive

[highkoo]

That's a bit lame demand..He could just download demo, make some stupid song, save it and post it here.

LOL. Yes I suppose that's what I could do, being some kind of retarded troll or something.

Oh, fuk.
LOL.

[headquest]

I was only taking a pot-shot at how HQ incessently paints Props as money-grabbers while ignoring Ableton's expensive policy for accessing advanced features).

This is a thread about Reason... I've complained plenty about Ableton prices elsewhere

Why does it matter so much to you that I think the lack of bundles, discounts, etc makes Re an expensive format??

Seems your only defence is to resort to childish personal abuse and implied insults about my music ....

[saturdaysaint]

Oh, and this one is also done entirely in Reason using just the grand piano from the FSB, tweaked a little with the MClass EQ and the RV7000:

http://soundcloud.com/keyquest-music/departures

Again, shame about the missing LFO.

Hey, I've heard your tracks before and understand that while I think you've gone *off the deep end* with this Reason vendetta, I'm not dissing your music.

That said, the ability to record music with one instrument doesn't mean you have anything useful to say about modular sound design, which is what Reason comes back to. You have to dig sound design to realize any of the potential of a modular environment. If you only use Reason as a glorified ROMpler, then you're going to overlook %75 of the value of RE's, which is extending the already considerable powers of the rack.

Someone focused on solo piano music has as much useful input for Propellerheads as a "2 turntables" DJ has for Boesendorfer.

[rifftrax]

Seeing as RE's can go into Reason, what about pulling parts of Reason out and selling them as VST's ? Of course i'm hinting at the synth with the same name as yours here I'd love to see Malstrom as a VST, and the Scream4 Distortion.

Just a thought. Maybe PH should cash in on that. I know i'd buy them.

+1

Props has been stupid to not offer individual plugins as VSTs honestly. This should have been done YEARS ago.

The amount of people that would purchase just for the familiarity factor alone would be staggering.

[headquest]

Hey, I've heard your tracks before and understand that while I think you've gone *off the deep end* with this Reason vendetta, I'm not dissing your music.

Thank you.

That said, the ability to record music with one instrument doesn't mean you have anything useful to say about modular sound design, which is what Reason comes back to. You have to dig sound design to realize any of the potential of a modular environment.

I totally understand your point, and I agree that for sound design Reason is a fantastic tool. However, Propellerhead marketing aims it squarely at ordinary musicians like me, who generally don't get into sound design. I know a lot of Reason users in my home town as well as online, and it's a fact that the vast majority of them rarely if ever flip the rack... but I guess if Propellerhead actually aimed Reason more clearly at the sound design world they would sell a whole lot less, so...

If you only use Reason as a glorified ROMpler, then you're going to overlook %75 of the value of RE's, which is extending the already considerable powers of the rack. Someone focused on solo piano music has as much useful input for Propellerheads as a "2 turntables" DJ has for Boesendorfer.

If you take a moment to check the other tracks I linked to, you will hear that I don't just do solo piano (although that is a big part of what I do, for sure).

"Falling Star" is done totally in Reason. But even with that one, I guess that I was mostly working with the front, not the rear of devices. In a sense, Reason is a big rompler to me, and I think a very good one actually. And as somebody else pointed out, the fact that sound designers can do the modular thing and then provide the rest of us with combinator patches and refills is a big part of that

But also as eXode said in the other thread, the introduction of Re is problematic for that moving forward - he mentioned that he doesn't even want to use the free Pulsar in his refills because once the free introductory period ends there's no way to know other Reason users will have it.

For me, again as a musician and not a sound designer, that all adds up to Reason moving in a different direction to where I am in my own interests and music. When using Reason it has been very appealing to me that there are more knowledgeable users who can help out providing patches using the common set of devices. And sure, that's a big part of the calculation when it comes to assessing the value for money aspect of the platform.

[ChiTown24]

According to the Audio Damage newsletter they are having a sale until the 6th of July. A sale that also includes their Rack Extension plugin. Though it may take a while for the page to update on the propheads store.

So, to recap;;



Intro prices: yep, no problem.

Sale prices: you betcha!

Crossgrades: VERBOTEN



Makes sense!

[valhallasound]

Intro prices: yep, no problem.

Sale prices: you betcha!

Crossgrades: VERBOTEN



Makes sense!

Have you written Propellerheads with your complaints about this issue? And have you brought this up on the Propellerheads forums?

Sean Costello

[ChiTown24]

this thread seems like a better place to address the devs who've been talking in it. no ?

[valhallasound]

this thread seems like a better place to address the devs who've been talking in it. no ?

There have only been a few devs in this thread. I'm a dev, and I've written a few things, but I haven't created any REs, or signed the NDA with Propellerhead, so I probably have about 0% influence on Propellerhead's policies. Plus, my views haven't proven to be very...popular over in the Propellerhead forums.

Sean Costello

[Kriminal]

Have you written Propellerheads with your complaints about this issue? And have you brought this up on the Propellerheads forums?

Sean Costello

Dont be silly, thats far too obvious and sensible

[ChiTown24]

ChiTown24 wrote:
this thread seems like a better place to address the devs who've been talking in it. no ?


There have only been a few devs in this thread. I'm a dev, and I've written a few things, but I haven't created any REs, or signed the NDA with Propellerhead, so I probably have about 0% influence on Propellerhead's policies. Plus, my views haven't proven to be very...popular over in the Propellerhead forums. Very Happy

Sean Costello

well considering i am only part of the "would-buy-reason-if" demographic, I don't think joining the propheads forum just to join some kind of massive noisy debate is a good idea, or the right thing to do. I can just imagine the "so you just joined the forum to argue" responses now, assuming people would disagree with my POV anyhow.

i am speaking in this thread, entirely in context, to perhaps influence or encourage the reason licensees who are already existing patrons of ported {or soon-to-be-ported} plugins. the folk who this crossgrade topic directly affects right now.

also, devs have been talking about crossgrades in this thread, and i am of the belief that the devs hold much more persuasive power than they are willing to admit. that's the main point i've been trying to have addressed, so i don't really see how joining the propheads forum will further those ends.

Emailing them isn't a bad idea however, though I still feel it is the devs who should be applying pressure {assuming they really want crossgrade prices}...not some insignificant email from a "would-buy-reason-if" potential customer. and if the devs wont apply pressure maybe we should apply pressure to the devs. and again, that would be better done in a forum where most of them have a presence, in a thread where the topic is being discussed. ie this thread.

As others have stated, it's insulting to human intelligence to have us believe crossgrades aren't possible so I'm reluctant to buy into the idea that it's all the propheads doing and the devs can do nothing about it.

@kriminal
thanks for your valued input.

[chk071]

+1

Props has been stupid to not offer individual plugins as VSTs honestly. This should have been done YEARS ago.

The amount of people that would purchase just for the familiarity factor alone would be staggering.

I doubt that either Reason's synths will be ever sold as VSTi's, or that Reason will ever open up for VST support. Both wouldn't be very smart considering that there are hosts on the market with much more functionality, as has already been posted in this thread, and i also think there are many VSTi's on the market which should be superior to Reason's synth (of course arguable...). The fact that Propellerhead do their own thing now with the Rack extension and the app store shows that they rather want the VSTi's to be taken to them than vice versa.

Would still be nice though to have Thor as VSTi, no doubt about that.

[ravasb]

Does anyone find it ironic that the first RE to go on sale is a direct port of a free VST? I use the phrase direct port, because that is exactly how it is described on the Prop's website.

[rifftrax]

Both wouldn't be very smart considering that there are hosts on the market with much more functionality, as has already been posted in this thread, and i also think there are many VSTi's on the market which should be superior to Reason's synth (of course arguable...). The fact that Propellerhead do their own thing now with the Rack extension and the app store shows that they rather want the VSTi's to be taken to them than vice versa.

Would still be nice though to have Thor as VSTi, no doubt about that.

I consider smart to be "whatever will make the largest shit-ton of money in the shortest amount of time while remaining a legal business practice".

So I think I have a very solid basis for my argument.

[mrdr]

Interesting article, especially since Valve Steam resembles Propellerheads RE shop in NFR policy.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/07 ... ded-games/