bitwig 2 is here

[fmr]

This is so sad, the lost potential to take on Live's monopoly on the non-linear DAW...

In your dream.
Live was a sleeping giant until BWS came out.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ableton reinvent its workflow and takes a lead beyond reach.
They have the money, talent, workforce and a huge user base.

And on top of that they got the collaboration of Cycling'74 and people of the Max comunity Max4Live and M4L devices was a great add-on, IMO.

[.jon]

All would this negativity would have been avoided by simply making this a 80 USD 1.5 update with a 2 update (for another 80 bucks) in 6-8 months when they are actually ready!

This would have made so much more sense (current version 1.3 anyway) that it makes me wonder who calls the shots at casa Bitwig.

[liquidsound]

This is so sad, the lost potential to take on Live's monopoly on the non-linear DAW...

In your dream.
Live was a sleeping giant until BWS came out.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ableton reinvent its workflow and takes a lead beyond reach.
They have the money, talent, workforce and a huge user base.

And on top of that they got the collaboration of Cycling'74 and people of the Max comunity Max4Live and M4L devices was a great add-on, IMO.

Yes. M4L is phenomenal and I'm confident that it will be improved further with each new version.
The promised v.2.0 modular feature in BWS is probably on the back burner until it may very well evaporate.
How on earth somethings so complex be implemented if basic features and bugs have yet to be addressed.
I think modularity is way beyond their present capabilities. In fact is no longer on a predictable version timeline.

And btw, subscription makes you more like an investor (on risk factor) while paying for the upgrade more like a happy, returning customer.

[chk071]

All would this negativity would have been avoided by simply making this a 80 USD 1.5 update with a 2 update (for another 80 bucks) in 6-8 months when they are actually ready!

This would have made so much more sense (current version 1.3 anyway) that it makes me wonder who calls the shots at casa Bitwig.

Interesting, because that's exact the kind of pricing scheme people here criticize about Cubase. Guess however you do it, it's wrong.

[fmr]

All would this negativity would have been avoided by simply making this a 80 USD 1.5 update with a 2 update (for another 80 bucks) in 6-8 months when they are actually ready!

This would have made so much more sense (current version 1.3 anyway) that it makes me wonder who calls the shots at casa Bitwig.

Interesting, because that's exact the kind of pricing scheme people here criticize about Cubase. Guess however you do it, it's wrong.

There are some critic of Steinberg, it's true, but it's not general, IMO. I, for once, agree with that politics. Instead of paying 150 for an upgrade, we have the chance to have a half-upgrade at half price in the middle of the period. For me it's better, and in the end, I don't pay more.

But honestly, Cubase Pro can't be compared with Bitwig Studio, IMO.

[woodsdenis]

All would this negativity would have been avoided by simply making this a 80 USD 1.5 update with a 2 update (for another 80 bucks) in 6-8 months when they are actually ready!

This would have made so much more sense (current version 1.3 anyway) that it makes me wonder who calls the shots at casa Bitwig.

Interesting, because that's exact the kind of pricing scheme people here criticize about Cubase. Guess however you do it, it's wrong.

No it's not, Cubase updates are yearly (not 6-8 months as you quoted in SLICs post), alternating between point and full every year. Also they will continue to bug fix after the next release. Not defending it but let's get our facts straight. The Cubase model at least makes the developers come up with something yearly to entice the customer to upgrade.

[incubus]

I remember complaining about the original price of bitwig too.

[chk071]

All would this negativity would have been avoided by simply making this a 80 USD 1.5 update with a 2 update (for another 80 bucks) in 6-8 months when they are actually ready!

This would have made so much more sense (current version 1.3 anyway) that it makes me wonder who calls the shots at casa Bitwig.

Interesting, because that's exact the kind of pricing scheme people here criticize about Cubase. Guess however you do it, it's wrong.

No it's not, Cubase updates are yearly (not 6-8 months as you quoted in SLICs post), alternating between point and full every year. Also they will continue to bug fix after the next release. Not defending it but let's get our facts straight. The Cubase model at least makes the developers come up with something yearly to entice the customer to upgrade.

Ok, then it's even worse, and you will have to shell out $80 every 6 or 8 months. Considering that people already criticize Cubase's scheme, that's even worse. Not taking a point here, i'm actually fine with Steinberg's model. I don't expect them to enhance the software in features, maybe even rework the GUI, as in version 9 of Cubase, for peanuts. Just saying that people criticize it, so i don't know how such a model, even when it's "worse" than that, would improve things, or make people happier.

Now look at me arguing as if KVR or people on social media actually DO represent the common userbase.

[chk071]

I remember complaining about the original price of bitwig too.

I always complain, about any price. Why can't i have it all for free?

[.jon]

The userbase for a modern, electronic music oriented DAW like BWS is actually very likely to be comfortable with software-specific internet forums and using social media to communicate with the developers and other users. It's 2017.

[Scotty]

Some fun facts regarding customer retention and attainment. Bitwig is no doubt aware of these consumer tendencies and can figure out what threads to pull on to make it right. The forums across the net are full of people who are unhappy and care enough to comment. That is a certainly not a grumble and the roar shouldn't be ignored. Regardless of where you stand on the licencing model, this is a marketing fail. The good stuff is being overshadowed by a very poorly communicated roll out. There is a silver lining. Many of their current customers want to continue to evolve their music making with their product; many are trying to figure our how they can afford to do so.

from https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130604 ... ut-haven-t
Here are my top 15 favourite stats from this list:

1. Price is not the main reason for customer churn, it is actually due to the overall poor quality of customer service – Accenture global customer satisfaction report 2008.
2. A customer is 4 times more likely to defect to a competitor if the problem is service-related than price- or product-related – Bain & Company.
3. The probability of selling to an existing customer is 60 – 70%. The probability of selling to a new prospect is 5-20% – Marketing Metrics.
4. For every customer complaint there are 26 other unhappy customers who have remained silent –Lee Resource.
5. A 2% increase in customer retention has the same effect as decreasing costs by 10% – Leading on the Edge of Chaos, Emmet Murphy & Mark Murphy.
6. 96% of unhappy customers don’t complain, however 91% of those will simply leave and never come back – 1Financial Training services.
7. A dissatisfied customer will tell between 9-15 people about their experience. Around 13% of dissatisfied customers tell more than 20 people. – White House Office of Consumer Affairs.
8. Happy customers who get their issue resolved tell about 4-6 people about their experience. – White House Office of Consumer Affair.
9. 70% of buying experiences are based on how the customer feels they are being treated – McKinsey.
10. 55% of customers would pay extra to guarantee a better service – Defaqto research.
11. Customers who rate you 5 on a scale from 1 to 5 are six times more likely to buy from you again, compared to ‘only’ giving you a score of 4.8. – TeleFaction data research.
12. It takes 12 positive experiences to make up for one unresolved negative experience – “Understanding Customers” by Ruby Newell-Legner.
13. A 5% reduction in the customer defection rate can increase profits by 5 – 95% – Bain & Company.
14. It costs 6–7 times more to acquire a new customer than retain an existing one – Bain & Company.
15. eCommerce spending for new customers is on average $24.50, compared to $52.50 for repeat customers – McKinsey.

[chk071]

The userbase for a modern, electronic music oriented DAW like BWS is actually very likely to be comfortable with software-specific internet forums and using social media to communicate with the developers and other users. It's 2017.

See, i know a lot of people. Even some musicians. I think the least of them are on social media, or forums, complaining about company's pricing schemes. That's rather... special.

[pottering]

C'mon people, don't argue that KVR, which hosts the the official Bitwig forum, and said official Bitwig forum (whose threads right now are way harsher and negative than this one) are "not representative" of the opinion of Bitwig's "real userbase", that's not a good look.

[Scotty]

It not a "good look" and it is wrong-headed as well. A survey across the net where Bitwig is discussed shows that these KVR forums are representative of those who care enough to voice their upset which is highly relevant if you read my previous post.

C'mon people, don't argue that KVR, which hosts the the official Bitwig forum, and said official Bitwig forum (whose threads right now are way harsher and negative than this one) are "not representative" of the opinion of Bitwig's "real userbase", that's not a good look.

[fmr]

Frankly, I don't care if it's representative or not. I care of my opinion. I am not here representing anyone except me, therefore, my opinion is not like a poll. But if all the people that expressed negative opinions vs the people here that expressed positive or at least neutral opinions is somewhat representative of customers, I would say that Bitwig is in trouble.

I remember what happened with iZotope a couple of years ago, and how they even felt the need to come here defending their options (which actually was a fail). In the end, they had to rethink their strategy, and they soone came outo with new p4roducts that corected what was being criticized (except for iris, but it seems like Iris is no longer their concern). And iZotope is not Bitwig.

The same could be said of several other labels, with considerable more wight than Bitwig.

So, I would say that people here ARE representative. and Bitwig should better listen and THINK.