When electronic music sounded new, like the future... what went wrong!

[BONES]

The thing is, you like Autechre and you seem to think that means anyone who doesn't hasn't put the effort in to see their genius. But it doesn't work like that because we all have different tastes and we get different things from the music we love. As I said, to me Autechre sounds like the kind of aimless noodling I used to do in the early 80s, before I had the knowledge and confidence to write a proper song. As such, it doesn't feel like anything worth listening to, to me. My perspective on it is every bit as valid as yours. You hear genius where I here nothing worth listening to. That's just the way it is with music - personal.

I'm sure if you bothered to listen to my favourite artists, you probably wouldn't feel the same way about them as I do. Maybe the difference is that I've spent the last 40 years knowing that the more I like a song, the less likely it is that anyone else will. I am used to the fact that my musical taste is a long, long way from the mainstream. I understand that what I get out of music isn't anything of value to most other people. And I'm fine with that, I don't need to tell people who don't like The Danse Society or Sixth Comm or Urban Verbs that they need to listen more carefully. You shouldn't need to tell people who don't appreciate Autechre the way you do that, either.

[vurt]

you just dont get it and youre not my real dad

its true though, not everyone will like everything you like.
you may even find someone, who adores "band whoever" as much as you do, and you play them someone else, who you think has something similar going on, and they cant hear the similarities and dont like it

its also, difficult sometimes with artists youve known for a long time, heard them grow, know they know their shit! then someone tries it on your recommendation, and a snapshot of 20 years of your life, doesnt move them.

eg: i love nurse with wound, like a lot! off the top of my head they have about 30 albums (plus or minus...) go check a couple of bits out, just a couple of mins here and there, it will sound like some random garbage perhaps, but if you listen to even a couple of full length releases a couple of times, while i dont expect you to like or even enjoy slightly, i would expect anyone in our game, to hear that he does know what he is doing!

its possible to dislike a thing, but still hear the skill, or lack thereof imo

[Erisian]

its possible to dislike a thing, but still hear the skill, or lack thereof imo

Absolutely. Some of my favourite music is dead simple and some of the music I most despise is highly skillful.

[machinesworking]

The thing is, you like Autechre and you seem to think that means anyone who doesn't hasn't put the effort in to see their genius. But it doesn't work like that because we all have different tastes and we get different things from the music we love. As I said, to me Autechre sounds like the kind of aimless noodling I used to do in the early 80s, before I had the knowledge and confidence to write a proper song. As such, it doesn't feel like anything worth listening to, to me. My perspective on it is every bit as valid as yours. You hear genius where I here nothing worth listening to. That's just the way it is with music - personal.

I'm sure if you bothered to listen to my favourite artists, you probably wouldn't feel the same way about them as I do. Maybe the difference is that I've spent the last 40 years knowing that the more I like a song, the less likely it is that anyone else will. I am used to the fact that my musical taste is a long, long way from the mainstream. I understand that what I get out of music isn't anything of value to most other people. And I'm fine with that, I don't need to tell people who don't like The Danse Society or Sixth Comm or Urban Verbs that they need to listen more carefully. You shouldn't need to tell people who don't appreciate Autechre the way you do that, either.

I like Autechre, but I spend no time at all telling others to like them. Because I like Venetian Snares, Whitehouse, Converter, Gorgoroth, Meshuggah, Immanent Starvation, as well as Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, AC/DC etc. etc.

IMO your taste is your taste, as a musician if it's any good at all, if you've spent any time learning what you love about music, I should not like all of what you like. Only someone with a pop musicians mindset thinks there's a universal sound we all are trying for.

[machinesworking]

you just dont get it and youre not my real dad

eg: i love nurse with wound, like a lot! off the top of my head they have about 30 albums (plus or minus...) go check a couple of bits out, just a couple of mins here and there, it will sound like some random garbage perhaps, but if you listen to even a couple of full length releases a couple of times, while i dont expect you to like or even enjoy slightly, i would expect anyone in our game, to hear that he does know what he is doing!

its possible to dislike a thing, but still hear the skill, or lack thereof imo

Nurse With Wound are a good example. I used Whitehouse because they're universally despised. NWW are a one man project more or less, met him once, nice guy, not pretentious at all which is cool considering he's considered "thinking mans" experimental noise music, and that crowd can be as snobby as elite jazz musicians.

The thing is no one has to "get it", and sometimes there's not a chance in hell people will. Does the music move you? that's the question, and only you can answer that.

[machinesworking]

The thing is, you like Autechre and you seem to think that means anyone who doesn't hasn't put the effort in to see their genius. But it doesn't work like that because we all have different tastes and we get different things from the music we love. As I said, to me Autechre sounds like the kind of aimless noodling I used to do in the early 80s, before I had the knowledge and confidence to write a proper song. As such, it doesn't feel like anything worth listening to, to me. My perspective on it is every bit as valid as yours. You hear genius where I here nothing worth listening to. That's just the way it is with music - personal.

Just an aside because I do largely agree with your point, but this, completely contradicts your earlier post:

BONES wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 2:33 am
Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I could name hundreds of bands you've never heard of, who make music you've never dreamed of, you sad, little man. I'm thinking you probably didn't even bother to listen to any of the Sixth Comm album, did you? OTOH, I was listening to Incunabula (for the first time in many years) while I responded to your post. If you think Autechre are anything but boring, run of the mill nobodies, it is you who are living in a tiny box.

You tend to post your personal opinion like it's a fact, in this case laced with ad hominem, there's really no way to get around the obvious contradiction here.

BTW I hate that Sixth Comm guys voice. The music isn't bad, but damn that's some stereotypical 80's yodeling, and they sound nothing like Autechre.

[dayjob]

The thing is, you like Autechre and you seem to think that means anyone who doesn't hasn't put the effort in to see their genius. But it doesn't work like that because we all have different tastes and we get different things from the music we love. As I said, to me Autechre sounds like the kind of aimless noodling I used to do in the early 80s, before I had the knowledge and confidence to write a proper song. As such, it doesn't feel like anything worth listening to, to me. My perspective on it is every bit as valid as yours. You hear genius where I here nothing worth listening to. That's just the way it is with music - personal.

I'm sure if you bothered to listen to my favourite artists, you probably wouldn't feel the same way about them as I do. Maybe the difference is that I've spent the last 40 years knowing that the more I like a song, the less likely it is that anyone else will. I am used to the fact that my musical taste is a long, long way from the mainstream. I understand that what I get out of music isn't anything of value to most other people. And I'm fine with that, I don't need to tell people who don't like The Danse Society or Sixth Comm or Urban Verbs that they need to listen more carefully. You shouldn't need to tell people who don't appreciate Autechre the way you do that, either.

oh ffs. we don't need to do this.. but oh well. i only used autechre as an example in my post. you went out of your way to be dismissive and condescending and kind of ridiculous. I don't expect people to like the things i like. i feel w/autechre it makes sense to say "start at the beginning" for the uninitiated since they create a new genre w/every other album or so and the music can and does change a lot between releases or eras. I guess i do have some expectation of 'serious' people on the internet to acknowledge that bands who've been killing it for 30 years are accomplished even if you don't like them. same way i can turn my nose up at something but acknowledge they have an audience and are resonating with some people and I may not like it but that doesn't mean they're "shit".

half my friends who make music i really like don't like plenty of things i like and vice versa. that's just the way it is. we all find different things to appreciate within the art we like.

there's plenty of music in the past that went under my radar and now and then finds its way to me 10 or 20 or however many years later to be appreciated in some way. the past is often worth exploring as much if not more than the present depending on what one likes or what mood strikes.

i'll add that as far as 'proper songs' go i think there are people who transcend this and at other times embrace it.. miles davis, aphex twin, autechre, squarepusher, phonecia, grischa licthenberger etc etc.. i enjoy the formless as much as if not more than typical song structure that resolves on cue as expected. some people do that really well.. others not so much. i don't dismiss music and art that falls outside the conventional as not "proper" art and i think that attitude is lame 100% of the time and that it slows and crushes innovation and exploration new territory. i'd argue that a lot of things that we all cherish were at some time were not considered 'proper' songs by plenty of people. i appreciate 'proper' songs but i don't consider it the pinnacle of creation where you seem to place it as if it's some ultimate level of maturity. also genres are a thing. they all work differently. even Killing Joke write 10 minute songs sometimes.

like most people my music tastes are full of plenty of what people consider to be 'guilty pleasure' pop tunes and nostalgia etc.

[machinesworking]

In typical fashion the thread devolved so quickly I never put in my thoughts on the original question.
Like others have posted, changes in technology are a large part of why Electronic music doesn't sound futuristic. It's used in every commercial, soundtrack and TV show for dozens of years now.

I can name single bands that more or less alone spawned whole genres from the 60's, 70's and 80's, after that it gets largely derivative or more like subgenre oriented. Thing is though all of it came with huge advancements of technology, footpedal FX and distortion for Hendrix, Ramones, Black Sabbath, synths for Kraftwerk, Throbbing Gristle, and Moroder. Computers have brought us Dubstep and Breakcore, but beyond that have yet to completely change the way music sounds. There's a big difference between the impact of distortion, or the first cheaper synths and stand alone sequencers and the impact of computers.

Maybe MPE will do it? but I kinda doubt it. The whole approach has to change to make a new genre, which by default sounds like the future™.

[Dirtgrain]

The thing is, you like Autechre and you seem to think that means anyone who doesn't hasn't put the effort in to see their genius.

Where did someone do this?

[dayjob]

Maybe MPE will do it? but I kinda doubt it. The whole approach has to change to make a new genre, which by default sounds like the future™.

as computers get faster who knows what we'll see? especially if venues evolve to accommodate multichannel surround systems etc.

ultimately i think innovation rests in the hands of artists though. there are so many tools available today that making music that's distinct and has a voice is possible for everyone.. the other side of that is lot's of same sounding records and copyists.

as for the op and sounding like the future.. electronic music isn't unknown anymore. i recall the first time i had that "WTF IS THAT SOUND" moment at a club or show and cherish that feeling. but here we are. we know what makes a lot of those sounds. but there's always more to explore imo. with control. total control. modulation. change over time etc. there's only so many people who are good at that.

structure, composition etc seems a way for artists to show innovation but i don't know if that adds up to sounding like the future. a lot of people love 'hyper pop' stuff. it seems a divisive genre but no doubt there's some talented people in that scene.

retro futurism is always a thing. people recontextualizing the past with current/new elements.

there is still music being made that i hear and think "that's great. i've never heard anything like that before" but it's as much about structure as it is about sound design. there's lot's of sound art out there and 'bug music' that's full of unheard sounds and innovation.

[Dirtgrain]

It reminds me of something Donald Rumsfeld once said: "There is music made with sounds; there is music made with new sounds; there is new music made with sounds; and then there is new music made with new sounds." [Something to that effect]

[donkey tugger]

Never been a fan of 'synthy' electronic music (apart from the top pop like Human League, Pet Shop Boys etc which is ok), but I like more gritty stuff with some attitude - people doing stuff with cheap technology to push it a bit. Was thinking that there's not been a lot of mention in this thread about more 'urban' (for wont of a better word) music in this. I'm thinking hip-hop, early techno, jungle (ah, I remember the mid 90s..just.. ), and more recently grime etc.

Not always my cup of tea (being an ageing rocker twat) but I like the inventiveness and attitude every time over some souless re-hash Jean-Michelle Jarre bizzle type stuff done with loads of fancy gear.

[foosnark]

why do developers go for perfect copies of old VA synths rather than develop something original.

Because there's demand for it. And emulation is an interesting problem to some developers.

I like the 'technology' and was wondering if we really have done everything that can be done with sound and synthesis (and hence the need to just go back and improve what we have already).

A few pages ago you yourself listed several examples of new and cool synths that aren't emulations of old gear. It doesn't take much looking to find more.

Also, if you're only considering VSTi plugins, think about hardware releases too. While there's always Behringer :hiss: and quite a few small companies making Eurorack clones of specific filters or oscillators, there's also a lot of new, non-clone gear with quite a bit of creativity on display. (E.g. Strega, Pluto, Liven XFM, Anyma Phi, Töörö...)

[melomood]

This is what I love about the computer music revolution
It has breathed new life in to arguing over the most pretentious of musical acts whilst referring to pop music as a guilty pleasure that can never just be liked but admitted to liking despite ones otherwise discerning tastes
as if capturing the zeitgiest,so to speak & putting out popular songs that become international hits is some lazy,offensive exercise

[dayjob]

This is what I love about the computer music revolution
It has breathed new life in to arguing over the most pretentious of musical acts whilst referring to pop music as a guilty pleasure that can never just be liked but admitted to liking despite ones otherwise discerning tastes
as if capturing the zeitgiest,so to speak & putting out popular songs that become international hits is some lazy,offensive exercise

'most pretentious of musical acts'?

a lot of pop is referred to as a guilty pleasure. it's just a figure of speech. singing along to weezer or something. i don't want to eat brownies all the time but once in a while it's really satisfying. i don't find a lot of music to be pretentious. some artists are pretentious people though.