Should I buy a DAW or use AI to make my music?

[BONES]

it is a relatively smooth transition because in the meantime, a lots of other jobs have been created (like data analyst for example).

Just like the Industrial Revolution.

I will give you an example on a domain I know well: banking.
As an IT, since 20+ years my job has been to:
1 - smoothen the client experience (20% of the effort).
2 - reduce the bank operating cost. (80% of the effort).
To be clear, point 2 is nothing less than replacing human job by automation.

Surely ATMs and online banking have already done that? Bank branches close with scary regularity these days, the banks themselves must be shedding staff more than any other business. I'm sure more people get employed in their IT departments but I can't imagine it makes up for all the losses in branches. 40 years ago I used to visit the bank at least once a week, sometimes two or three times, but I have not set foot in a branch now for many years. There is no longer any need. That's a lot of people whose jobs are no longer relevant.

... not a way to make everybody nervous haha.

Why would anyone be nervous? You can't possibly think AI would do a worse job than people of running the place? Look at the f**king clowns we've got in governments all over the world today. It's a sad and sorry lot, a computer would undoubtedly do a better job.

You have to remember that AI doesn't think, it relies on its ability to store and process data at a much higher rate than we can to give the impression of thinking, but it's all still just algorithms. It's not self-aware and it's highly unlikely it ever could be so it's never going to outgrow us.

one day, people will have had enough of history, repeating itself.

That only works if people are aware of history but these days people seem less and less concerned with esoteric knowledge like that.

have hope

Oh, I have hope but you wouldn't like what it is I hope for.

we have to forget the old way of doing things, where there was finite resources as there won't be.

Whilst we are stuck on this tiny planet, resources will always be finite. Automation costs money, the machines to do the work don't just drop from the sky, there has to be a whole industry building and maintaining them and that industry requires resources. Technologies like nano-assembly might one day make better use of resources but resources will likely be finite for a few centuries yet.

[Jac459]

Just like the Industrial Revolution.
...

Well, I am no historian, but if you think the Industrial Revolution was smooth, I suggest you reopen your history book...
It has rebalanced the force between countries and transformed the life of people inside countries in a way that goes far beyond what you discuss (like for example being a farmer, in the countryside and be forced to become a coil miner).

Globally, sorry but I think you miss the whole point of the discussion. It is like we are saying that with war, people will die, and you answering that people are already dying everyday. Yes sure, but not with the same magnitude.

It is like your examples of changes, in the recent decades. Yes it is true changes. But not the same order of magnitude.

[j wazza]

If you even have to ask this question, you already know the answer.

[BONES]

It has rebalanced the force between countries and transformed the life of people inside countries in a way that goes far beyond what you discuss (like for example being a farmer, in the countryside and be forced to become a coil miner).

Or like being a bank teller who has had to retrain as a bus driver because that's the only work he/she can find now.

Globally, sorry but I think you miss the whole point of the discussion.

No, I'm just seeing it more clearly than you. The upheaval of the Industrial Revolution was far more profound than anything that will come of this one, short of a full-blown singularity event.

It is like your examples of changes, in the recent decades. Yes it is true changes. But not the same order of magnitude.

But still part of the same process, nonetheless, and a far greater change than our parents or grandparents have witnessed previously.

[Jac459]

Or like being a bank teller who has had to retrain as a bus driver because that's the only work he/she can find now.

Not at all, lol... in one case it is a change of job.... In the other case it is a profound change of life, with people extracted from their land (which didn't had the same importance in this time than today) migrating to city, an organisation of life for which they were totally unprepared...

[Jac459]

No, I'm just seeing it more clearly than you.

I am sure you do haha. You don't seems to be a person with self-doubt...
But the fact that you see what you see clearly, doesn't means it is the reality lol.

[vurt]

it is a relatively smooth transition because in the meantime, a lots of other jobs have been created (like data analyst for example).

Just like the Industrial Revolution.

I will give you an example on a domain I know well: banking.
As an IT, since 20+ years my job has been to:
1 - smoothen the client experience (20% of the effort).
2 - reduce the bank operating cost. (80% of the effort).
To be clear, point 2 is nothing less than replacing human job by automation.

Surely ATMs and online banking have already done that? Bank branches close with scary regularity these days, the banks themselves must be shedding staff more than any other business. I'm sure more people get employed in their IT departments but I can't imagine it makes up for all the losses in branches. 40 years ago I used to visit the bank at least once a week, sometimes two or three times, but I have not set foot in a branch now for many years. There is no longer any need. That's a lot of people whose jobs are no longer relevant.

... not a way to make everybody nervous haha.

Why would anyone be nervous? You can't possibly think AI would do a worse job than people of running the place? Look at the f**king clowns we've got in governments all over the world today. It's a sad and sorry lot, a computer would undoubtedly do a better job.

You have to remember that AI doesn't think, it relies on its ability to store and process data at a much higher rate than we can to give the impression of thinking, but it's all still just algorithms. It's not self-aware and it's highly unlikely it ever could be so it's never going to outgrow us.

one day, people will have had enough of history, repeating itself.

That only works if people are aware of history but these days people seem less and less concerned with esoteric knowledge like that.

have hope

Oh, I have hope but you wouldn't like what it is I hope for.

we have to forget the old way of doing things, where there was finite resources as there won't be.

Whilst we are stuck on this tiny planet, resources will always be finite. Automation costs money, the machines to do the work don't just drop from the sky, there has to be a whole industry building and maintaining them and that industry requires resources. Technologies like nano-assembly might one day make better use of resources but resources will likely be finite for a few centuries yet.

yes, this is the transitional period, im talking end of the line.

as has been said earlier, prediction is folly, you cant predict, but you can hope and think about possibility.

as for your hopes, you only think like that, because you see the shit and no beauty in the world, so your glass is broken, not just half full
try listening to something less grrrr for a month or two

[Synthman2000]

Cannot delete

[BONES]

as for your hopes, you only think like that, because you see the shit and no beauty in the world...

Quite the opposite, I see the destruction of all the beauty in the world at an ever increasing rate, trampled to death by over-population like a f**king plague. Let me give you an example. It is estimated that a feral cat kills five animals a day, mostly native animals who never evolved to deal with this invasive predator. Five animals a day doesn't sound like much, until you discover that there are an estimated 20 million feral cats loose in the wild in Australia. So that means cats are killing 100 million native animals a day. That's 36.5 billion native animals gone every year, at the hands of a single invasive species. How long until they are all gone? Of course, no-one will do anything about it because little girls love cats and don't want to see them hurt. And you want to suggest the world of people is worth saving? I'm not seeing it, I'm afraid.

try listening to something less grrrr for a month or two

Interestingly, I'm listening to the most recent Opposition album at the moment, which is no "grrrr" element to it at all, and I've been getting quite into Agnes Obel's music lately. I find her vocals intriguing and I love the strings she uses.

[Michael L]

as for your hopes, you only think like that, because you see the shit and no beauty in the world...

Quite the opposite, I see the destruction of all the beauty in the world at an ever increasing rate, trampled to death by over-population like a f**king plague. Let me give you an example. It is estimated that a feral cat kills five animals a day...

Very true. I also live in Australia who leads the world in extinctions of indigenous animals, and I have cooked and eaten feral cats (they taste like tangy rabbit).

But I visit KVR for comic relief from the monotonous misery, and the wearisome whingeing.

So do your fair share to end human over-population!

Remember, absence makes the heart grow fonder

--and you can exit ecologically: https://permacultureaustralia.org.au/makinganecoexit/

[awakeme1897]

As a composer, having a master's degree in Music Composition. I never liked the AI's music. I'm more big band jazz/film scoring the music. Mixing/Mastering part is also never gonna be reached even though we have izotope-like support plugins.

[BONES]

I'm sorry you wasted your time with all that study, but those ships have sailed already. The reality is that everything you learned in your course, AI can also learn and use at least as well as you can. And Izotope has been using AI for a few years now and the results are excellent. Because the thing with mastering is that it's all about getting it technically perfect, and that's where AI can easily match a human. If I'm honest, I only make adjustments to make myself feel useful. And all of it will only get better over time. e.g. Three versions of Photoshop ago, they introduced an AI assisted tool to cut the subject out of a background in a photographic image. In it's first iteration, it saved us a bit of time but you still had to do some of the work yourself. This year's iteration is almost perfect. I reckon I only have to make minor adjustments about a tenth of the time. So something that used to take half a day, now literally take half a minute. In a year or two I expect that is one specialist job that will no longer exist at all because AI will be able to do it perfectly, 100% of the time.

Honestly, I don't understand everyone's reluctance. AI frees us from drudgery and let's us concentrate on what matters to us by taking care of all the mundane shit we'd otherwise have to do for ourselves. This week, for example, I got Chat GPT to generate some prose, to my strict guidelines, which I then fed into another AI to turn it into vocals, using a cloned version of my own voice. That AI only understands British and American accents, so it's my voice with Received Pronunciation and it's perfect! Better than I could do myself, with my own f**king voice!! It even has breaths between phrases and the tone and inflection changes in a mostly natural way that enhances the performance when placed into the mix. I f**king love it!

[Synthman2000]

There is a serious problem with hope, it is 100pct pointless. Sorry about that implication. It implies being wishful, fundamentally ineffectual. That is a real problem with it. I hope it won't rain today, but that thought will not stop it. If, as the universe unfolds it is due, as thermodynamic equilibrium plays out.

I hope I remain well for the rest of my life, I hope I live a long life, I hope you are going to have a great life. It will not make a shred of practical or assisted difference to the outcome. Maybe psychologically it has a benefit at individual level, mind and body are connected of course.

I think it is possible to see immense beauty in the world and yet not be hopeful, both of those feelings can exist together.

A society needs to be logical about, think about, skilled in future vision, plan, engineer, build, and actively physically build and manage future success. Hope has nothing to do with it. Those running your country and world have a lot to do with it.

AI music right now is not very good. Neither is it cool. Actually it is immensely boring. AI music will get better that is certain. However right now AI music does not even come close to the multi faceted skill set required to make really good music in any genre. I think some parts of AI will become excellent, vocals for example and unrecognizable from human performance. A harsh reality is that it is already pretty close.

There are a lot of idiosyncrasies tied into emotions that are going to be immensely challenging for static numbers and databases to decode, that is what it has to do decode.

Right now most AI takes a slightly less than half baked stab at things. Music initially seems like AI cannon fodder, a test bed without too great consequences maybe.. but the reality is going to take longer I think.

AI is going to be about money, power and control, the latter will try to be hidden through the former, just like now. That is the bottom line. So whatever vast sums of money are spent on now will likely see AI technologies employed. How much and on what depends on motivations of powerful people, just like now.

I do not believe we should expect some Utopia, just look around.

I think the real concern is other areas in society which will have vastly more potential for damage and life change, some good and some bad.

It is so difficult to predict as we do not know the real abilities of current guarded AI.
What we see now is probably outdated and the AI developers probably have something much more advanced in the pipeline. That is why Musk and heads of AI tech companies suggest a possible pause to see what potential outcomes could be. Maybe AI should advance model some scenarios ? I suspect it is all too unpredictable to model, maybe they did that and the outcomes were not favorable for humans, thus a pause.

All upheavals cause more or less damage to humans depending on individual situations.

Keep making music, human music is incredible, the depths of our souls and spirits are in it. By definition AI can never touch it. And don't forget we derive a lot of fun and enjoyment, value, satisfaction and development from music. That is inside you and nowhere else to be found. Humans are bound to finite time, that adds a special poignant value, as time only runs one way.

Impermanence is linked with focus and adds irreplaceable value.

[Synthman2000]

My daily existence is being immersed in high end audio and music. We are going to be ok as AI has no mystery. All that vagueness, chance, emotion, being unorganized in some areas that musicians and creatives have will be what saves them. That often spoken of as negatives are in fact positives.

[kelvyn]

My daily existence is being immersed in high end audio and music. We are going to be ok as AI has no mystery. All that vagueness, chance, emotion, being unorganized in some areas that musicians and creatives have will be what saves them. That often spoken of as negatives are in fact positives.

Yup! I guess there’s a correlation between digital and vinyl records.
At last here’s an opportunity to gain some traction outside of what I call ‘Generica’. Popular music has already become algorithmized by people like the Teddy’s and the Swedish Mafia guys who have systemized what successful music should sound like and that’s pretty much what AI is going to do.