Come on, in hindsight that music does not sound that good anymore, despite any effort they might have put into it. Others manage to create a better sound today with the same tools you probably have at your disposal.wagtunes wrote:Which is why I can't get my songs to sound like they were recorded in million dollar studios.klinik wrote:The sound chain for that kickdrum would be (and probably is) something like: Pro-one --> compressor --> EQ --> compressor --> Fairlight AD (sampling) --> Fairlight DA --> desk channel --> Tape deck --> Mixing deck channel. And once mixed aditional processing is done...
You are really wondering why is not sounding the same as the raw output from the pro-one (or repro-1 BTW)??
Repro-1 (out now)
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
Last edited by fluffy_little_something on Fri May 12, 2017 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- Banned
- 10729 posts since 17 Nov, 2015
I can. All i need is Daniel Millers ARP2600 from 1981/2 and we're sorted.adamgrossmanLG wrote:
Question for you could you produce the Vince Clarke Kick Drum samples I provided earlier? If not, then you can't prove anything either.
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- KVRAF
- 1586 posts since 7 Jun, 2007
I think the "defensive" tone you're picking up on here is probably more of an incredulous tone. A lot of people here are very experienced in music production and software vs hardware comparisons etc, and without knowing how much experience you have (you might have just started out in music production) the conclusions you're coming to seem a bit naive. (no offense)
In an early 80s synth-pop production the most obvious instruments to get worked on in the mix (dynamics and EQ) would be the drums. They may have even layered drum sounds to beef them up. Often certain real analog synths don't do amazing percussive stuff because the oscillators don't restart their phase with every note-on. In these cases...or just times when the engineer/producer wanted "more"...there'd have to be some work done to get "more". Pop music is not a synth demo, it's better to assume that any released music you hear has been worked on, pretty hard, and that if a synth doesn't live up to expectations it's because you're asking too much of the synth alone.
Now blanket comments like vsts don't have the bottom end that analog does are just waaaay too broad and dismissive to be taken seriously here. YOU will not be taken seriously if you make those kind of comments. And if that's just been your experience on your journey then say so. Most would suggest that your experience needs to be broadened, try more vsts and real analog synths. Don't listen to YouTube examples. They're ballpark at best.
If you knew the recent history of how painstakingly and transparently/publicly on this forum u-he have developed Repro-1 then you'd understand that implying (or even sounding like you're implying) that RePro-1 suffers some oversights in its makeup is gonna get people's incredulous-meters pinging.
You probably (hopefully) started this line of questioning simply looking for an explanation without intending to critique Repro-1. Unfortunately here at KVR there are occassional trolls who come along with controversial and often ludicrous statements just trying to get a rise out of people. You can usually tell who they are by their low post counts or the tone of their post history.
Your post came across as challenging, hence the responses you've received. If you're new here it's best to state who you are and if you're a noob or quite experienced, and double check the tone of your posts if you're simply looking for explanation or information.
To answer your question, RePro-1 drums don't sound like Yazoo's drums because their drums have been engineered, mixed and massaged to fit and work in the context of the song. The Pro-One just provided the raw material. Yazoo's songs are fairly simple arrangement-wise and in that era in that musical context the other Pro-One parts wouldn't have needed as much massaging to work in the mix.
Long-winded, but hopefully insightful.
In an early 80s synth-pop production the most obvious instruments to get worked on in the mix (dynamics and EQ) would be the drums. They may have even layered drum sounds to beef them up. Often certain real analog synths don't do amazing percussive stuff because the oscillators don't restart their phase with every note-on. In these cases...or just times when the engineer/producer wanted "more"...there'd have to be some work done to get "more". Pop music is not a synth demo, it's better to assume that any released music you hear has been worked on, pretty hard, and that if a synth doesn't live up to expectations it's because you're asking too much of the synth alone.
Now blanket comments like vsts don't have the bottom end that analog does are just waaaay too broad and dismissive to be taken seriously here. YOU will not be taken seriously if you make those kind of comments. And if that's just been your experience on your journey then say so. Most would suggest that your experience needs to be broadened, try more vsts and real analog synths. Don't listen to YouTube examples. They're ballpark at best.
If you knew the recent history of how painstakingly and transparently/publicly on this forum u-he have developed Repro-1 then you'd understand that implying (or even sounding like you're implying) that RePro-1 suffers some oversights in its makeup is gonna get people's incredulous-meters pinging.
You probably (hopefully) started this line of questioning simply looking for an explanation without intending to critique Repro-1. Unfortunately here at KVR there are occassional trolls who come along with controversial and often ludicrous statements just trying to get a rise out of people. You can usually tell who they are by their low post counts or the tone of their post history.
Your post came across as challenging, hence the responses you've received. If you're new here it's best to state who you are and if you're a noob or quite experienced, and double check the tone of your posts if you're simply looking for explanation or information.
To answer your question, RePro-1 drums don't sound like Yazoo's drums because their drums have been engineered, mixed and massaged to fit and work in the context of the song. The Pro-One just provided the raw material. Yazoo's songs are fairly simple arrangement-wise and in that era in that musical context the other Pro-One parts wouldn't have needed as much massaging to work in the mix.
Long-winded, but hopefully insightful.
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- KVRian
- 813 posts since 18 May, 2007 from Berlin
(edit: used a wrong quote from before, deleted that now)
I'd say don't read too much aggression into people's words here. For my part, this is all in good fun, and a nice challenge.
I'd say don't read too much aggression into people's words here. For my part, this is all in good fun, and a nice challenge.
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
The kicks on those Yazoo songs (gee, that woman had such a mean face 
) are very flat, more like a metronome 
I think what you might be looking for is the attack transients. They probably recorded a lot of kick sounds and then picked the one with the strongest transients (they vary a lot without osc and env retriggering) and then repeated that over and over again with some trick (an Emulator I maybe)?
) are very flat, more like a metronome I think what you might be looking for is the attack transients. They probably recorded a lot of kick sounds and then picked the one with the strongest transients (they vary a lot without osc and env retriggering) and then repeated that over and over again with some trick (an Emulator I maybe)?
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adamgrossmanLG adamgrossmanLG https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=398192
- KVRist
- 42 posts since 10 May, 2017
Thank you so much for this reply, it is very much appreciated.xalama qo wrote:I think the "defensive" tone you're picking up on here is probably more of an incredulous tone. A lot of people here are very experienced in music production and software vs hardware comparisons etc, and without knowing how much experience you have (you might have just started out in music production) the conclusions you're coming to seem a bit naive. (no offense)
In an early 80s synth-pop production the most obvious instruments to get worked on in the mix (dynamics and EQ) would be the drums. They may have even layered drum sounds to beef them up. Often certain real analog synths don't do amazing percussive stuff because the oscillators don't restart their phase with every note-on. In these cases...or just times when the engineer/producer wanted "more"...there'd have to be some work done to get "more". Pop music is not a synth demo, it's better to assume that any released music you hear has been worked on, pretty hard, and that if a synth doesn't live up to expectations it's because you're asking too much of the synth alone.
Now blanket comments like vsts don't have the bottom end that analog does are just waaaay too broad and dismissive to be taken seriously here. YOU will not be taken seriously if you make those kind of comments. And if that's just been your experience on your journey then say so. Most would suggest that your experience needs to be broadened, try more vsts and real analog synths. Don't listen to YouTube examples. They're ballpark at best.
If you knew the recent history of how painstakingly and transparently/publicly on this forum u-he have developed Repro-1 then you'd understand that implying (or even sounding like you're implying) that RePro-1 suffers some oversights in its makeup is gonna get people's incredulous-meters pinging.
You probably (hopefully) started this line of questioning simply looking for an explanation without intending to critique Repro-1. Unfortunately here at KVR there are occassional trolls who come along with controversial and often ludicrous statements just trying to get a rise out of people. You can usually tell who they are by their low post counts or the tone of their post history.
Your post came across as challenging, hence the responses you've received. If you're new here it's best to state who you are and if you're a noob or quite experienced, and double check the tone of your posts if you're simply looking for explanation or information.
To answer your question, RePro-1 drums don't sound like Yazoo's drums because their drums have been engineered, mixed and massaged to fit and work in the context of the song. The Pro-One just provided the raw material. Yazoo's songs are fairly simple arrangement-wise and in that era in that musical context the other Pro-One parts wouldn't have needed as much massaging to work in the mix.
Long-winded, but hopefully insightful.
I apologize to the forum if anyone thinks I came here to troll. I am using my real name on my username, so most definitely I wouldn't troll. I am a home electronic musician with about ten years of experience with hardware and software synths. I'm nowhere near professional, and I'm sorry coming off as otherwise.
I am new to KVR forums and didn't know the way in which people discuss things here.
In response to what you said about the processing... I agree completely, and would never compare a dry synth to a finished recording. I know they layer, EQ, compress, etc....
I did this time because I read that the only synth used on "ONLY YOU" is the Pro One. I also read that minimal post production was done on those records... Which I feel I can even hear.
Again, my apologies if I came off like a troll. I am really enjoying this plug in and plan to purchase!
Thank you for assisting me here. It is much appreciated,
Adam
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
Listen how consistent kicks can sound with osc/env retriggering and phase control:
https://app.box.com/s/eays7xgswx5l7gj2xo3qoeuggxgbkfof
https://app.box.com/s/eays7xgswx5l7gj2xo3qoeuggxgbkfof
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fluffy_little_something fluffy_little_something https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=281847
- Banned
- 12880 posts since 5 Jun, 2012
You're a girl?!egbert101 wrote:I suggested that the Pro One was sampled and put through a fairlight, and got stamped on.
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adamgrossmanLG adamgrossmanLG https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=398192
- KVRist
- 42 posts since 10 May, 2017
Maybe I just dont know how the recording process works, but I figure (say in the case of Yazoo):
1. Write songs
2. Arrange them on synth
3. Record synth parts to liking
4. Submit to mix engineer
5. mastering
If the post processing happens at stage 4, I am surprised that Vince would even turn in a kick drum that sounds the way I feel the presets do anyway. I thought you have to be somewhat in the ballpark at least.
I would expect the parts that are done in the tracking phase to resemble the final product. Unless parts 3/4 are kinda done together. Like as Vince is programming synths, he is (or an engineer) is mucking about with compression, EQ, etc...
see, I am putting together my first synth pop project, but I am not mixing or mastering. I have someone who is going to do this for me, so I am trying to get the sounds mostly right before submitting.
I am sorry if I don't understand the process. Again, I think this is a fine product and plan to buy.
1. Write songs
2. Arrange them on synth
3. Record synth parts to liking
4. Submit to mix engineer
5. mastering
If the post processing happens at stage 4, I am surprised that Vince would even turn in a kick drum that sounds the way I feel the presets do anyway. I thought you have to be somewhat in the ballpark at least.
I would expect the parts that are done in the tracking phase to resemble the final product. Unless parts 3/4 are kinda done together. Like as Vince is programming synths, he is (or an engineer) is mucking about with compression, EQ, etc...
see, I am putting together my first synth pop project, but I am not mixing or mastering. I have someone who is going to do this for me, so I am trying to get the sounds mostly right before submitting.
I am sorry if I don't understand the process. Again, I think this is a fine product and plan to buy.
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- KVRAF
- 16725 posts since 13 Oct, 2009
Just because it's been shown that the main riffs were not sampled to the fairlight does not mean the drums weren't. You aren't going to get any significant pitch variation there. I haven't listened to the track critically so I'm not saying that this was what was done.adamgrossmanLG wrote:Maybe I just dont know how the recording process works, but I figure (say in the case of Yazoo):
1. Write songs
2. Arrange them on synth
3. Record synth parts to liking
4. Submit to mix engineer
5. mastering
If the post processing happens at stage 4, I am surprised that Vince would even turn in a kick drum that sounds the way I feel the presets do anyway. I thought you have to be somewhat in the ballpark at least.
I would expect the parts that are done in the tracking phase to resemble the final product. Unless parts 3/4 are kinda done together. Like as Vince is programming synths, he is (or an engineer) is mucking about with compression, EQ, etc...
see, I am putting together my first synth pop project, but I am not mixing or mastering. I have someone who is going to do this for me, so I am trying to get the sounds mostly right before submitting.
I am sorry if I don't understand the process. Again, I think this is a fine product and plan to buy.
I also think that you're probably overstating the division between recording and mixing here. In those days there would have been tape saturation, and almost certainly a mixing console with its own flavor, and probably some compression before it ever got to the mix engineer. How else do you think that it was going to be recorded to deliver to the mix engineer in the early eighties? It would have to be on analog tape, no?
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adamgrossmanLG adamgrossmanLG https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=398192
- KVRist
- 42 posts since 10 May, 2017
True 
I understand what you are saying. I just thought and expected the kick presets to be a little closer to accurate... because the bass and arp stuff is very close.
Anyway, sorry to "hijack" this thread.
I appreciate everyone's help here!
I understand what you are saying. I just thought and expected the kick presets to be a little closer to accurate... because the bass and arp stuff is very close.
Anyway, sorry to "hijack" this thread.
I appreciate everyone's help here!