Storm Studio, Reason, FL Studio, and Orion Platinum

[speccyteccy]

First thing I wanted to do was to use the computer keyboard as a midi keyboard, so I searched (or at least thought I did) the help by typing "qwerty" and hitting enter. Took me to a long page that I had to read through but found no mention of the word "qwerty" - turns out the help doesn't have a search function (!!!), and it had just taken me to a page that contained the nearest thing - "quantize"!

Finally figured that I need to hit F12 to use the computer keyboard as midi – however, it loses focus as soon as I touch something else, like the mixer.

I forgot that was even there.

I use the QWERTY keyboard a lot. The fact that it loses focus when I click anywhere else makes it unusable.

In the piano roll, I can't seem to paint notes horizontally.

Hold down CTRL while you paint.

Thanks

No horizontal mouse scroll in the piano roll.

Huh? Do you use a hotkey combo or something in FL?

Hold the middle mouse button to pan vertically and horizontally.

No wave editor?

You mean "No lame, useless wave editor". I have Cool Edit 2000 in mine and I think Krim has SoundForge. Steven West is a bit pretentious so he probably has WaveLab, right there in his ORION Playlist.

I've not found found a free wave editor that lets me set loop points as easily as FL's. And the colour scheme matches!

Graphical glitches on title bar of piano roll and in main toolbar – stuff being drawn in the wrong place, like the “bar numbers”.

never noticed none of those but I do have a more serious than avaerage display card.

I've got an ancient 32Mb graphics card, but don't have problems with other apps.

Is it possible to see piano roll and instrument at the same time? It seems you can only toggle between the two views. If not, that’s a big issue.

Really? I don't think its ever come up.

Well, it has done now, and for reasons discussed discussed above, it's a big issue for me.

Only four sub groups in the mixer?

Que? That's way more than anyone should need. I rarely use more than one and never more than two. I've noticed this in CM a bit. People seem to find the most difficult way to do everything. I really don't get it.

Well, I like to route things around, process stuff, merge them back together, plus I need another sub-group if I'm recording for fold back. I'm still limited by FL's four sends, but that's all about to change!

Are there any spline or lfo drawing tools in event editor?

LFO tool, no splines.

I use the automation clips a lot, and the spline tool makes them easy to create and even easier to edit.

Can Orion do time stretching?

No, because Rich is not happy with the quality of any of the available technology that he could license to do it.

Again, timestretching is something I use quite often.

Can’t find anything like FL’s browser

Thank God. I never used it, it took up too much space.

If you drag it to the left of your screen, it snaps to a narrow vertical line just a few pixels wide - grab that and pull it in the opposite direction to see it again. As I mentioned before, the browser in invaluable to me - quick access to so much, and in FL6 it's going to be searchable!

Also had a quick look at the fx and synths – there seems to be a good selection of fx, but can’t say I’m impressed by the synths

That is probably because you don't get even a fraction of the sound-sets that ship with them.

Fair comment, but, as discussed above, I still think there's better freeware synths out there.

– none of them appear to have anything other than basic ADSR envelopes, which is a big downer.

and none of FL's instruments seem to have wave-sequencing or anythign approaching a decent sounding resonant filter. What's your point? I hate multi-point envelopes - too much krap to wade through when you almost never need them.

I'm suprised. Multi-point envelopes give you so many possibilites. Even FL's 3xOSC has additional delay and hold stages, and you can adjust the tension of the attack, decay and release curves.

In all fairness, as Orion 6 has just been released, I should be comparing it with FL6 which is just about to be released

That's strange, Fruity has been around a lot longer than ORION, you'd think they would be at version 7 or 8 by now.

Why? Is the quality of a product dependent on the number of versions it's at?

although it’s probably a good thing (from Orion’s perspective) that I can’t do that – FL6 looks like a huge update.

... that won't address any of its core weaknesses, I'm sure.

Which are?

Nice review speccyteccy. I'm sure many people have found it informative. Only problem for you is that you are now considered an idiot by Bones because you don't like closing synths. But, let's hope he forgets.

I always though speccyteccy was an idiot, look at the name he chose.

LOL! Like many on here, the name's a joke! I'd hoped there was no need for personal insults - I'm sure none of my posts in this thread have got personal. I even said that I'd get used to the fact they closed rather than hiding.

Is it possible to see piano roll and instrument at the same time? It seems you can only toggle between the two views. If not, that’s a big issue.

No, why would you want to?

er... maybe e.g. because on basslines there's often some kind of trade-off/interdependence between the note-lenghts and the filter-/gain-envelopes needed/recommended/going on...

Errr... how on Earth would that help? You can't see the envelope superimposed over the piano roll at the approriate scale, can you? You are absolutely going to have to use your ears in that situation, like every other that I can think of. Again, you need to free yourself from the process and concentrate on the results. Its a great mantra, try it.

You're just writing from your point of view! It seems someone else agrees that being able to see the notes being played whilst tweaking your synths is important if not essential.

I'd guessed that there maybe people reading this thread looking for sensible advice on which soft studio to buy. Of course I've got a vested interest in trying to persuade people to go with FL - more money to ImageLine - more development. I bought FL because I thought it was the best of the ones listed, and I felt that anyone reading this thread would think (from all the shouting) that Orion was better. I don't agree. CM don't agree, and the KVR Poll doesn't either. I've even put my money where my mouth is - stating that I'll buy Orion Platinum IF I can be persuaded that it's better that FL. Not even close, even comparing Orion6 to FL5.

[origami]

I know great musicians (not necessarily pro, but professional doesn't mean better, just luckier) who use FL Studio, Orion, Logic, Cubase, Nuendo, Reason, Sonar, etc etc. I know at least a great musician who use every single one of the most important sequencers/virtual studios, so for me, the debate is hollow.

[ceenda]

Btw, you're stooping to your 'comfortable' level again, so i'm just gonna say that i probably earn more money than you.

Dunno if anyone remembers the rich guy from the Harry Enfield show?

"Excuse me sir, I can't help noticing that I am considerably richer than you..."

[jens]

Is it possible to see piano roll and instrument at the same time? It seems you can only toggle between the two views. If not, that’s a big issue.

No, why would you want to?

er... maybe e.g. because on basslines there's often some kind of trade-off/interdependence between the note-lenghts and the filter-/gain-envelopes needed/recommended/going on...

and one click is going to change that? thats all it is, one click to see the piano roll. I cant imagine how everyone ever wrote a track using hardware without seeing the notes...

nope - of course not - I merely pointed out why someone might want to see both at once - however one click is imo simple nough...

[speccyteccy]

Does that mean you think there's no point in test driving any of the hosts to see which one you prefer? How would you go about chosing one?

[speccyteccy]

Is it possible to see piano roll and instrument at the same time? It seems you can only toggle between the two views. If not, that’s a big issue.

No, why would you want to?

er... maybe e.g. because on basslines there's often some kind of trade-off/interdependence between the note-lenghts and the filter-/gain-envelopes needed/recommended/going on...

and one click is going to change that? thats all it is, one click to see the piano roll. I cant imagine how everyone ever wrote a track using hardware without seeing the notes...

nope - of course not - I merely pointed out why someone might want to see both at once - however one click is imo simple nough...

Problem is that one click become n clicks very quickly!

[Wopelka]

i'm just gonna say that i probably earn more money than you.

the "you show me yours" chestbeat fest, also known as "my daddy is stronger than yours" is not over yet

[jens]

Errr... how on Earth would that help? You can't see the envelope superimposed over the piano roll at the approriate scale, can you? You are absolutely going to have to use your ears in that situation, like every other that I can think of. Again, you need to free yourself from the process and concentrate on the results. Its a great mantra, try it.

I won't join your hilarious little fights - I merely explained a simple fact

however your inability to communicate with others without insulting them is rather alarming...

[arke]

BONES is a ...





(I want that shirt, btw!)

[Wopelka]

it's crazy how much a beard can soften a face

[tony tony chopper]

for me, the debate is hollow

and this thread is bollocks

[arke]

it's crazy how much a beard can soften a face

no kidding ...

by the way, I can almost see now why BONES prefers Orion over FL. Seems like its the style of music.

[BONES]

Well, I like to route things around, process stuff, merge them back together

I like to use high quality sounds that don't require much assistance.

Again, timestretching is something I use quite often.

Without regard for the quality of the results? Right now, on the extremely rare ocassions when I might have a need for it, I would much rather do it non-realtime in CE2k, where I can be a little more certain of the quality.

If you drag it to the left of your screen, it snaps to a narrow vertical line just a few pixels wide - grab that and pull it in the opposite direction to see it again.

Yes, its always been like that but once closed I never felt the need to reopen it.

I still think there's better freeware synths out there.

Please point me in the direction of any softsynth with as good a resonant filter sound as WaspXT. Don't feel the need to restrict yourself to freebies.

Multi-point envelopes give you so many possibilites.

Not as many as an ADSR whose output can be inverted.
much simpler + more powerful = better.

Why? Is the quality of a product dependent on the number of versions it's at?

That was certainly what you inferred. I was just picking up the ball and running with it, so to speak.

Which are?

Bad workflow, poor internal instruments, bad layout.

Errr... how on Earth would that help? You can't see the envelope superimposed over the piano roll at the approriate scale, can you? You are absolutely going to have to use your ears in that situation, like every other that I can think of. Again, you need to free yourself from the process and concentrate on the results. Its a great mantra, try it.

You're just writing from your point of view! It seems someone else agrees that being able to see the notes being played whilst tweaking your synths is important if not essential.

So there are two idiots in the world. There's a revelation. Seriously, I'm not talking from "my point of view", its common sense. You need to hear those kinds of relationships. There is no way you can see two disparate things and make any kind of sense of them, its just not practical.

I bought FL because I thought it was the best of the ones listed, and I felt that anyone reading this thread would think (from all the shouting) that Orion was better.

And they'd be showing themselves to be intelligent, discerning professionals.

I don't agree. CM don't agree, and the KVR Poll doesn't either.

I would take the time to read the review before I sided with CM and, as I said earlier, the poll is only an indication of how many current users there are of each product. After all, how many Traktion users are going to vote for Podium? If you did the same thing for small cars in Australia the Toyota Corolla would win. That doesn't mean it isn't the most bland, unisnpiring, insipid piece of krap this side of a Hyundai, it just means people are f**king idiots who go through their entire lives without a single opinion of their own to hang their hat upon.

I've even put my money where my mouth is - stating that I'll buy Orion Platinum IF I can be persuaded that it's better that FL. Not even close, even comparing Orion6 to FL5.

You mean by comparing features, on a page. How many projects did you create in each to compare the quality of the results with? 3? More? No, you just counted envelope segments and decided that FL had more, therfore it has to be better. OTOH, I used Fruityloops for a very long time before I switched to ORION, so who do you think has the deeper, more balanced perspective? And you can bleat all you like about all the really cool stuff that has been added since I stopped using but, in the end, you are still just counting features because very few of the things that made me give it away in the first place have been addressed in any useful, meaningful way. The Channel paradigm is way past its use-by date, the Playlist is an abortion and the GUI is a jumbled f**king mess, despite having the most amazingly slick graphics I have ever seen on any piece of software. It has so much promise but it just fails to deliver on the really important things. OTOH, ORION is under-done in many areas but the results of which it is so effortlessly capable make up for those shortcomings tenfold.
But you are never going to understand that by spending an hour or two with the demo as it was never designed for instant gratification, it was made from the ground up to be a serious, professional tool. FL is undoubtedly an application for it's time which undoubtedly it's greatest failing.

[BONES]

it's crazy how much a beard can soften a face

no kidding ...
by the way, I can almost see now why BONES prefers Orion over FL. Seems like its the style of music.

You idiots aren't really stupid enough to believe that that's me, are you?

[tony tony chopper]

Not as many as an ADSR whose output can be inverted. much simpler + more powerful = better.

so what does an ADSR that a multipoint can't? I'd like to know, because since my envelope editor I don't plan to ever use ADSRs anywhere.