Reaper - What's the catch?

[V'ger]

Reaper's MIDI is very good but it seems picking on that is rule no 1 for Reaper detractors, usually without much justification and based on lack of experience or knowledge. When pushed those who have both will list one or two niggles or features most won't ever use ...

Really? Most people won't ever select and edit notes across multiple clips or tracks in one editor? Most won't apply quantize to notes inside a clip in arrange without opening an in-place editor and selecting all the notes first? Most don't re-arrange and edit midi clips on the timeline without worrying about notes getting split up and changing the performance? Most don't want to cue a song from anywhere and have controllers chase so it plays correctly from anywhere?

Nobody wants to strip or edit controller data from multiple tracks or clips at the same time?

I never said that, so why claim it?

To edit multiple items in the MIDI editor would of course a nice feature to have, as would quantize etc directly on items, but the way you make it out here and in other threads as the be and end all thing with regards to MIDI in a DAW is in my opinion way off the mark.

I write a lot of MIDI, exclusively MIDI, and only a few times have I had the wish for editing multiple items at the same time. But for every note I write I'm thankful I can do it in such a fast and time saving way, and I'm relieved the MIDI plugins in the project don't crash and how easy they are to set up and edit and route later. (big part why I left Cubase for Reaper)

For you the multiple-item-editing is a deal and back breaker, but all the tasks you mention here that would be nice to do in the MIDI editor can still be done with custom actions, splitting, gluing etc. Some would require more clicks like you say, but how about the thousands of clicks saved with a tool-less and clever writing environment? Why don't you mention that as massive advantage to Reaper and disadvantage to others if click numbers and time saving is the measure? Because the disadvantages are just niggles that could be improved in the other DAWs, right?

People come on threads (I recognize regulars), go off their rockers how Reaper's MIDI is terrible/sucks and that other DAW's MIDI handling are WAY better when that is simply false.

[LawrenceF]

People come on threads (I recognize regulars), go off their rockers how Reaper's MIDI is terrible/sucks and that other DAW's MIDI handling are WAY better when that is simply false.

I personally wouldn't say it's "simply false" unless I claim to be the holder of the only singular truth? Maybe it's just the case that what's true for them just isn't true for you? Is that possible? That something (anything) you find great could actually suck for someone else because... well... maybe they have different needs and expectations?

So "simply false" actually doesn't really fit with subjective personal opinion in these cases. It's not anything black and white, there's lots of gray area because we aren't Stepford people.

I just gave you an example of how (in one way) Cubase is "way better" for some. You may not agree with the general need for those functions based on the way you prefer to work, but you / we also can't perform those functions in Reaper or Studio One. Are they "way better", the midi functions, or just bloat?

That too would be a subjective personal opinion with lots of gray area. The key is to allow everyone to have their own subjective opinion without claiming yours is the only definitive truth.

Kinda why I appended my comment with "imo, mmv".

[V'ger]

It's possible to edit pitch, velocity and other things in multiple items simultaneously.

Reaper's MIDI completely sucks.

it's also cumbersome and painfully slow, especially when compared to DAWs as sophisticated as Logic.

Totally wrong. Reaper's MIDI is in fact brilliant and I would bet the fastest and easiest there is to write with. Single-click-drag to enter note and length at the same time. Single-click only will enter note with last set length. Single-click-drag existing note to move it around or single-click to delete. All with the regular mouse cursor; no tools, menus or keyboard needed. Any faster or better?

Yes, FL Studio has faster, better and smoother MIDI editing.

This has unfortunately become the typical response about FL. Just a general it's better without saying why, which is particularly naff when it's in response to a list of specifics. But let me get this straight then: Can FL set note and length at the same time or does it involve more steps? Can it select multiple notes with just the mouse? Can that selection be muted with the press of a key or button? Does FL use tools?

CC editing is A HELLUVA LOT SMOOTHER in FL. Just try it. Why? Because it simply is, there are no discrete bars for CCs, velocity editing is much smoother because you don't need to click directly on the bar to change its value, it has several pixels of leeway and you can click/click-drag anywhere in that leeway section to change its value (also the bars are thinner so it's less visual clutter that way). This is definitely NOT the case with Reaper. Also, you don't really need to use tools with FL as most of those tools have their keyboard modifiers as well.

Not to mention automation clips, preset waveforms for envelopes, etc. So yeah, while you might consider Reaper's MIDI "brilliant", it definitely isn't the case across the board, and there are DAWs out there which simply do it better, faster and smoother. Get used to that fact.

This proves my earlier point about the typical FL claim, since for the second time there is no commenting on the specifics which disproves it; it's just ignored as if it didn't exist and instead we get wild shouting about something else..

This time it's how MIDI CC editing is on another planet because bars are slightly easier to grab. I could like with note editing show why FL MIDI CC editing overall is more slow and cumbersome, but against flag-waving nothing counts anyway so I'll save it.

[V'ger]

People come on threads (I recognize regulars), go off their rockers how Reaper's MIDI is terrible/sucks and that other DAW's MIDI handling are WAY better when that is simply false.

I personally wouldn't say it's "simply false" unless I claim to be the holder of the only singular truth? Maybe it's just the case that what's true for them just isn't true for you? Is that possible? That something (anything) you find great could actually suck for someone else because... well... maybe they have different needs and expectations?

So "simply false" actually doesn't really fit with subjective personal opinion in these cases. It's not anything black and white, there's lots of gray area because we aren't Stepford people.

I just gave you an example of how (in one way) Cubase is "way better" for some. You may not agree with the general need for those functions based on the way you prefer to work, but you also can't perform those function in Reaper or Studio One. Are they "way better" or just bloat?

That too would be a subjective personal opinion with lots of gray area. The key is to allow everyone to have their own without claiming yours is the only definitive truth.

Kinda why I appended my comment with "imo, mmv".

So there are different truths now, and each is a matter of personal opinion?

[LawrenceF]

So there are different truths now, and each is a matter of personal opinion? Sigh.

Yes, everywhere you look. Some people's truth is that iPads are great, other's truth is that they suck. Some people's truth is that an invisible person is watching us all, others truth is that those people are delusional.

Unless you live in a robot city where everyone thinks the same way about everything and everyone's brain works the same way and everyone makes music exactly the same way, I'm not sure how you don't see multiple examples of subjective truth - based on personal need, experience, expectation, taste, environment, whatever - all over the place... every day.

Why would software be any different? Unless you're suggesting that everyone who records midi clicks in lots of notes like you do? You actually can't be suggesting that.

Some people just play their midi instrument and then modify, edit, what they played, without ever clicking in a note that they actually didn't play. You do realize that right? Why would they care how many clicks it takes to click in a note?

Mileage varies... greatly.

[Tricky-Loops]

So there are different truths now, and each is a matter of personal opinion? Sigh.

Yes, everywhere you look. Some people's truth is that iPads are great, other's truth is that they suck. Some people's truth is that an invisible person is watching us all, others truth is that those people are delusional.

Unless you live in a robot city where everyone thinks the same way about everything and everyone's brain works the same way and everyone makes music exactly the same way, I'm not sure how you don't see multiple examples of subjective truth - based on personal need, experience, expectation, taste, environment, whatever - all over the place... every day.

Why would software be any different? Unless you're suggesting that everyone who records midi clicks in lots of notes like you do? You actually can't be suggesting that.

Some people just play their midi instrument and then modify, edit, what they played, without ever clicking in a note. You do realize that right? Why would they care how many clicks it takes to click in a note?

That's why we have estimated 20 different DAW's, and while they are the same concerning the main features, they differ a lot in the additional features.

I don't understand these "who-is-having-right"-battles. Why not simply using the DAW of your choice and making music...? If I couldn't live without multiple different MIDI clip editing, I rather would use a different DAW than litigating about what DAW is better...

YMMV especially in the States...

[LawrenceF]

Yeah, I actually thought saying "imo, mmv" would be enough to frame my opinion as just that, a subjective personal opinion that likely doesn't apply to the rest of humanity at large.

Silly me.

[Astromann]

I am hoping we can make 20 pages here!

[Tricky-Loops]

I am hoping we can make 20 pages here!

If I would say that REAPER MIDI features suck...

(just a suggestion to get people to make 20 pages )

[Astromann]

I write a lot of MIDI, exclusively MIDI, and only a few times have I had the wish for editing multiple items at the same time. But for every note I write I'm thankful I can do it in such a fast and time saving way, and I'm relieved the MIDI plugins in the project don't crash and how easy they are to set up and edit and route later.

I must say that what you are mentioning here is my experience too.
My situation is probably a lot like yours...composing,arranging, mixing etc...and a lot of midi is used in that process.
I find the midi in Reaper to generally be really good to work with.
At the same time tho Lawrence is in a different situation and would like to see multiple items edited at once because he uses that feature a lot.
Comes down to...we all have different needs I guess, and it would be nice to have that in Reaper...even tho I probably would not use it that much,
but at the end of the day I am only one user, there are probably thousands of others that work differently and have different needs.

However as an arranger I would love to see global folder packing and control.
(As explained earlier) that would be Reaper on steroids, it would make complex arrangements a hundred times easier to work with and would do a lot of what Lawrence would want as well, perhaps even more!
You can do a lot of that now in Reaper...but it requires setting up a lot of custom actions (to jump in a folder etc..) and doesn't address folder level editing...such as quantize, transpose etc..if Reaper had that I would buy it a brides dress and take it to the altar!! LOL!!(':hihi:')

Cheers

[Astromann]

its gonna take a few more posts to make page 17...and then theres only 3 to go!!

[EvilDragon]

I could like with note editing show why FL MIDI CC editing overall is more slow and cumbersome

Except it isn't, it's faster.

[LawrenceF]

Here's where Reaper excels. Quick rough mix I did with it this morning with some practice stems, vocals need lots of editing but I didn't bother.

YT changed the audio quality a bit.



No midi involved.

[memyselfandus]

Had no idea this feature was in reaper.



awesome for making practice tracks where you want the metronome sound on the tracks.

[memyselfandus]

Here's where Reaper excels. Quick rough mix I did with it this morning with some practice stems, vocals need lots of editing but I didn't bother.

YT changed the audio quality a bit.



No midi involved.

Lawrence, what theme is that?? looks nice.