Logic Pro v10.4 is out

[Enkerli]

Has there been any change to the MIDI FX in Logic Pro X 10.4? Not finding anything about that in the lengthy release notes.

Specifically, would like to find the best way to do automatic, realtime harmonization in Logic (and MainStage). Searching for something which would emulate the “Michael Brecker Effect”, related to work Robby Kilgore did a while ago on the Oberheim Xpander for the wind controller player (and on Arduino since then). In that case, chords are rotating under the melody notes which means that you get different chords all the time.

My guess is, this would be awe-inspiring with the new Studio Horns.

There are third-party plugins which do similarly cool harmonization through MIDI. My favourite so far is the free tonespace by mucoder. There’s also a free standalone app and a Max-based app for that exact thing. Even emulated this myself in the Sonic Pi environment.

Of course, first-party support in Logic would be much easier and likely more robust.

The Chord Trigger effect can help a bit, if set up properly, but a given melody note will always trigger the same chord (unless something else is done; maybe through an additional control?). There must be a way to do it in Scripter, but my JS skills are extremely limited (and my overall coding skills are very low).

So, it’d be interesting to know if anything has changed in terms of MIDI FX, scripting, etc.

[jonljacobi]

From a pure spec view, Macs are far pricier than Windows PCs. They sell because they are physically attractive, and in many ways a cleaner and more pleasant experience for the end user. As such they have great appeal in the artistic communities.

That is from a lifelong user of the competition, from Commodore to Atari to DOS to Windows. I still work mainly on a Windows PC. But as much as I have loathed Apple and its practices over the years, props where props are due. Logic is such a great DAW for $200, that it offsets at least some of the pain the hardware prices cause.

That said, I bought used.

[jonljacobi]

To answer a couple of questions...

I'm not as impressed with the sound of the strings, I see no changes to the MIDI fx, and all in all, the change list is extremely accurate. Musictechguy on YouTube just did a pretty decent overview.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

You guys really show why Apple manages to keep selling underspec'd and overpriced machines.

You mean I could buy a more powerful Windows machine for less money than my Mac? Where were you 11 years ago?

You have an 11 years old Mac? And you can run Logic 10.4 on it? FANTASTIC

Perhaps you might point out where I said I was still running an 11-year old Mac.

Why would you need me 11 years ago, if not to prevent you from buying the Mac, then?

Anyway, jokes apart, I am a Mac user for around 30 years now, and a Windows user for almost as many. That doesn't prevent me of thinking that current Macs are underspec'd and overpriced. And I also agree that Logic is one of the best DAWs around, and a real bargain.

I have no problem in acknowledge that. I am a Logic user since version 2.0 (Windows was still 1.9 then).

But that doesn't make me like Apple or Apple way of doing business. And to also think that what Apple doesn't charge in software charges double on the hardware.

Because I bought my first Mac 11 years ago. If you'd warned me, I'd have know not to be so foolish.

I agree that, on paper, Mac's are overpriced and under-spec'd. However, my personal daily, and long-term experience cancels out both of those issues. I had more than 7 years good use from my first MBP (Only ended due to accident), and my current computer is almost 6 years old (I'll explain the maths if you need). I can run both the current OS (maybe even the next), and this current Logic version (And I'm guessing quite a few more updates; I have a video-card that allows me to play most games pre-2016, at a quality level that I don't find lacking, and that can display the new funky colourful reverb display. As far as I'm concerned, this Mac has lived up to it's price-tag, especially considering I bought it second-hand

That might not be an experience shared by others, but I am only speaking for myself.

I also dual-boot Windows 10 into Bootcamp, and don't really care which one people choose to use. As long as they enjoy it and don't try to argue against the personal experience of others, or try to reduce said personal quality of experience to mere comparison of dollars paid.

[Coxy]

That doesn't prevent me of thinking that current Macs are underspec'd and overpriced.

I never understand this "thinking".

What you mean you can build a comparable machine for less?

I hear this a lot yet no-one else on earth seems to sell a 5k screened, all in one, with aluminium chassis, aluminium wireless keyboard, and wireless mouse for a lesser cost, why?

Apparently not even custom builders. So on a per spec basis, it is overpriced. But I doubt many if any buy a Mac for 'just the specs' because if they did they'd be brain dead. Thus it's unrealistic to compare spec for spec whilst looking at soley price vs price.

Here's why...

I can buy a Toyota Camry with a 3.5 litre hybrid engine for $25k. The same v6 hybrid engine in the same guise as used in the Lexus RX450h along with many other components they share. Yet the Lexus is more than double the price (almost triple at $65k) - they both have the same engine, they both return similar MPG (Camry slighter better), they both share a similar top speed and 0-60 times (Camry slightly quicker). They both have 5 seats. So spec for spec the Lexus is overpriced.

But when buying cars one looks at the the experience, the usability, the style, the presentation, the whole not just the on paper spec.

So why then can we not accept this when the above kind of thinking influences our purchasing decisions on computers?

To me when people hate (ridicule) on other people for using this type of thinking when purchasing a Mac it says more about the individual hating than it does on the individual using the Mac. I'm not directing that sentiment at you but as a general statement applicable to the situation I see often on forums when discussing Mac vs PC.

Regards.

[chk071]

I can buy a Toyota Camry with a 3.5 litre hybrid engine for $25k. The same v6 hybrid engine in the same guise as used in the Lexus RX450h along with many other components they share. Yet the Lexus is more than double the price (almost triple at $65k) - they both have the same engine, they both return similar MPG (Camry slighter better), they both share a similar top speed and 0-60 times (Camry slightly quicker). They both have 5 seats. So spec for spec the Lexus is overpriced.

Sorry, but, that's absolute nonsense. There will be differences everywhere, chassis, interior, seats, whatever. Neither the case, nor the keyboard or the mouse are the big cost factor in computers. So, of course you can compare the cost of a Mac to a similar Windows computer, especially as there even are all-in-one PC's as well.

Anyway, i really don't want to hold this discussion, because, in the end, the people buying a Mac have to know, and, there's definitely a point to buying a computer as a whole, without having to worry about hardware, or software, because it's all well supported. And, of course, a Mac also has its price, because Apple sells premium stuff, for a premium market. There's really no reason to argue about it, because, one should be grateful that there is a market for all of that stuff, and we all have the choice. For people who want Mac OS as the operating system, there is no alternative anyway.

[fmr]

That doesn't prevent me of thinking that current Macs are underspec'd and overpriced.

I never understand this "thinking".

What you mean you can build a comparable machine for less?

I hear this a lot yet no-one else on earth seems to sell a 5k screened, all in one, with aluminium chassis, aluminium wireless keyboard, and wireless mouse for a lesser cost, why?

Well, I think this is derailing thread too much, so, it will be my last entry on the subject.

F*ck 5k. I'm tired of that argument. No one uses 5k except Apple. No one cares. That's why 5k displays are so expensive. Even 4k displays are still a rarity, because most people don't need them. But if you want a 4k display, you may have it, and much cheaper than 5k (actually, for the price of a 5k, I think you can buy TWO 4k). And the quality is high enough (at least for me).

So, pick the 5k, and put it in ... well, I'll let you decide where

Apart from 5k displays (which in an all-in-one computer, are an even more stupid option, due to the fact that you cannot reuse them when the computer dies), I can build a MODULAR system for way less than I can buy an iMac - and better spec'd. And I can exchange parts every two years, keeping the specs at the top. And my displays can be reused in a second system, if and when I decide to retire the old one, after, say, five years.

So, not only do I save money, I am being more ambient friendly.

I will not even post here the prices of the parts, since this is so evident. Only those that absolutely refuse to see can't see this.

As I said, I am still buying Macs, because of some software (like Logic and Metasynth). And my last experience with the iMac (my first all-in-one, and perhaps my last) was a complete disaster, I have to say. And Apple support... Better not even start talking about that.

[Coxy]

That doesn't prevent me of thinking that current Macs are underspec'd and overpriced.

I never understand this "thinking".

What you mean you can build a comparable machine for less?

I hear this a lot yet no-one else on earth seems to sell a 5k screened, all in one, with aluminium chassis, aluminium wireless keyboard, and wireless mouse for a lesser cost, why?

Well, I think this is derailing thread too much, so, it will be my last entry on the subject.

F*ck 5k. I'm tired of that argument. No one uses 5k except Apple. No one cares. That's why 5k displays are so expensive. Even 4k displays are still a rarity, because most people don't need them. But if you want a 4k display, you may have it, and much cheaper than 5k (actually, for the price of a 5k, I think you can buy TWO 4k). And the quality is high enough (at least for me).

So, pick the 5k, and put it in ... well, I'll let you decide where

Apart from 5k displays (which in an all-in-one computer, are an even more stupid option, due to the fact that you cannot reuse them when the computer dies), I can build a MODULAR system for way less than I can buy an iMac - and better spec'd. And I can exchange parts every two years, keeping the specs at the top. And my displays can be reused in a second system, if and when I decide to retire the old one, after, say, five years.

So, not only do I save money, I am being more ambient friendly.

I will not even post here the prices of the parts, since this is so evident. Only those that absolutely refuse to see can't see this.

Yawn.

[Coxy]

I can buy a Toyota Camry with a 3.5 litre hybrid engine for $25k. The same v6 hybrid engine in the same guise as used in the Lexus RX450h along with many other components they share. Yet the Lexus is more than double the price (almost triple at $65k) - they both have the same engine, they both return similar MPG (Camry slighter better), they both share a similar top speed and 0-60 times (Camry slightly quicker). They both have 5 seats. So spec for spec the Lexus is overpriced.

Sorry, but, that's absolute nonsense.

It's not though, is it, when you really think about it.

[Zexila]

F*ck 5k. I'm tired of that argument. No one uses 5k except Apple. No one cares. That's why 5k displays are so expensive. Even 4k displays are still a rarity, because most people don't need them. But if you want a 4k display, you may have it, and much cheaper than 5k (actually, for the price of a 5k, I think you can buy TWO 4k). And the quality is high enough (at least for me).

That friend I mentioned earlier that bough iMac month ago, bough it because of retina display and for his job that put him food on the table, professional video recording/editing/animation, 4K is starting to be demand in his branch and he needed reliable machine that will not crash so often and waste him valuable time, he is absolutely blown away because this thing didn't crashed once on him and stuff that needed ages on similarly speced PC he had using before, now takes so less, seems that Adobe stuff works great on this combo he got.



TL;DR

People that make a living using an computer care and use this kind of machines, not some hobbyists like us.

[Bodhisan]

You guys really show why Apple manages to keep selling underspec'd and overpriced machines.

You mean I could buy a more powerful Windows machine for less money than my Mac? Where were you 11 years ago?

Trying to warn your parents not to have children...

Despite my feeling that I would be much happier had I never existed, my parents (dog love'em) never regretted having me. Children and parents often disagree like that

Anyway, f**k Off!

Uh, yeah. Well put. I think we can allow that to speak for itself. Much akin to our lovely President, who has no velocity. Speaking of which, is there velocity in the new horns/strings, or is just the humanize?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

You guys really show why Apple manages to keep selling underspec'd and overpriced machines.

You mean I could buy a more powerful Windows machine for less money than my Mac? Where were you 11 years ago?

Trying to warn your parents not to have children...

Despite my feeling that I would be much happier had I never existed, my parents (dog love'em) never regretted having me. Children and parents often disagree like that

Anyway, f**k Off!

Uh, yeah. Well put. I think we can allow that to speak for itself. Much akin to our lovely President, who has no velocity. Speaking of which, is there velocity in the new horns/strings, or is just the humanize?

Oh look...You're still here. That's so cute

[Krakatau]

Oh look...You're still here. That's so cute

+1



the future will be sensitive (or won't be !)

[festeringheap]

Here is a pretty good idea of how the new horn section works, although he seemed to have trouble with a couple of articulations. Amazing. Realistic, imo.

And FREEEEE!

Looks great.

However, I am having a problem replicating something in this vid. Help!

Around the 15:00 mark, he starts to use individual instruments after using the Chicago section.

His MIDI clips for the solo instruments have Articulation dropdown. Mine don't. Is there a setting somewhere that I have to check off to get this feature? (I did have the Articulation dropdown for Chicago)

For clarification, I mean the dropdown when you work in the Midi region, as opposed to the actual plugin.

Thanks!

Yeah, that one made me scratch my head, as well. I haven't tried the solo instruments yet. When I tried to load the brass instrument from the instruments list, there was no articulation menu. You have to go in via the library. I assume that the solo instruments must be accessed the same way. Otherwise, I have no idea, and I guess we'll have to wait for the user's manual, or more tutorial vids. Or, just mess about with it until we get lucky.

Thanks for the help. With a bit of messing about, here's what I found out:

If you Create an Empty Channel Strip, and then go Library>Studio Horns>Single Instruments>Studio Trumpet 1...
you will see the Articulation Dropdown list in the Midi Clip,

If You Create a Studio Horn, and then go Library>Lead Instruments>Studio Trumpet 1...
you will not see the Articulation dropdown list in the clip

Not sure if that is a bug - same Instrument, you'd think the Dropdown should be there as well...

[machinesworking]

To me, the biggest performance difference on macOS and Windows, by a really long shot, has been a switch to SSD. Qualitative difference: pretty unusable with HD, quite decent with SSD.

Yep, the 09 Mac Pro has newer HD's in it, running at 170-190mbs, (larger hard drives have better performance for some reason, so the 4TB HD is fast); the OS is on an XP941 running at 1100mbs, and the bigger sample libraries are on an SM951 running at 1450mbs. Smaller libraries are on USB3 connected external SSDs running at 340mbs. As far as RAM is concerned I rarely do huge orchestral stuff, so 24GB more than suffices. Mostly if I have issues with CPU it's due to loading a single track, at 12 cores and 24 possible threads, track count doesn't do anything to my CPU.

I just don't foresee any reason to upgrade the mac until it's actually dying at this point. So IMO everyone has a very valid point about Apple Tax in regards to modern hardware, and this huge delay on their "modular" replacement for the trash cans, but in terms of having to abandon Logic because it's not running well on old hardware it's not much of a point.

Speak for macOS, but you never saw a Windows gaming machine. No wonder mac users think there was no big improvements in desktop computers, when the majority is still using i5, and a machine with a vanilla i7 is considered high end.

Things like this: http://www.techradar.com/news/new-intel ... -overclock

or this:

http://www.pcgamer.com/intels-8th-gen-p ... rformance/

are what high end is about, and what it means in the windows world.

Six core CPus will be the standard for this year's new high-end machines. Where are the Macs with those? Apple choose to pile two overpriced Xeons, instead, making the prices jump through the roof.

And do you REALLY think any ARM CPU will be able to beat those? You guys really show why Apple manages to keep selling underspec'd and overpriced machines.

What in my post made you think I was saying my 09 mac was competitive with a 2018 top of the line PC? I'm saying that it's 100% competitive with a standard PC and standard 2018 mac.

You can't really argue about price for high end machines, it doesn't make any sense. You can argue for a price point sure, "At 2000k I can build a better machine than any current mac at that price", that's a valid point, but arguing that high end machines are expensive is like arguing that fast cars are expensive.

Arguing that Macs are overpriced in a Logic thread on KVR, who would have thunk it?

Oh, and Mac Pros were out in 2012 with two six core chips in them, you need to look into their product lines if you're going to compare chips. The current iMac Pro can be configured with an 8 or 10 core chips... You can buy a Windows laptop with Xeons in it.... I get it you like i7's, cool, if you're going for pure power then duel core machines are going to beat single i7's, but none of it matters to us these days does it? I haven't had CPU issues in years.

As to upgradability, I've replaced pretty much everything but the logic board in this mac pro. It depends on the machine. My point wasn't to get into a freaking boring as hell mac vs pc argument but to point out that if you like Logic you can spend a modest amount of money on an older Pro and you will not suffer performance wise. I do just fine with this 09 machine, no reason to buy a new i7 on a custom gaming PC because of a benchmark test proving it's 33% faster.