Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1

[xbitz]

I think my short journey with Live will come to a quick end...
How can so many work with it???

Maybe as many of us have never had (or even heard of) this problem? very weird- what version of Live and what OS?

Hmmm... I saw many many videos long time users were claiming about constant crashes in Ableton so Idk if this really such a rare case... perhaps they are just used to lose much work... I am not. This was really the first time in my life...

This was Suite 11.3.13 on Windows 10...
Just a few Audio tracks with beat warp mode, Ableton native devices (non M4L) and the only VST´s Sylenth, Shaperbox, Voxengo SPAN+ and Psyscope Pro...
I used them in every project since years and none of them has ever caused any trouble in FL Studio, Reaper, Studio One and my limited experience in Bitwig...

In the manual, there's even a page about cloud-based auto-backup, wonder why?
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... -Practices

[SLiC]

I think my short journey with Live will come to a quick end...
How can so many work with it???

Maybe as many of us have never had (or even heard of) this problem? very weird- what version of Live and what OS?

Hmmm... I saw many many videos long time users were claiming about constant crashes in Ableton so Idk if this really such a rare case... perhaps they are just used to lose much work... I am not. This was really the first time in my life...

This was Suite 11.3.13 on Windows 10...
Just a few Audio tracks with beat warp mode, Ableton native devices (non M4L) and the only VST´s Sylenth, Shaperbox, Voxengo SPAN+ and Psyscope Pro...
I used them in every project since years and none of them has ever caused any trouble in FL Studio, Reaper, Studio One and my limited experience in Bitwig...

Strange- I also have 11.3.13 suite but on Win 11 and can honestly say I have never had a crash, ever (I think crashes are rare with most DAWS now)- I don't have Sylenth, Voxengo SPAN+ or Psyscope Pro or I would try to reproduce for you. Ableton Live has an estimated 100 000 users, so there are bound to be a few people having issues, but it is unlikely to be something that effects all users (ie local to someone's system) or we would definitely know about it!

[liquidsound]

I think my short journey with Live will come to a quick end...
How can so many work with it???

Maybe as many of us have never had (or even heard of) this problem? very weird- what version of Live and what OS?

Hmmm... I saw many many videos long time users were claiming about constant crashes in Ableton so Idk if this really such a rare case... perhaps they are just used to lose much work... I am not. This was really the first time in my life...

This was Suite 11.3.13 on Windows 10...
Just a few Audio tracks with beat warp mode, Ableton native devices (non M4L) and the only VST´s Sylenth, Shaperbox, Voxengo SPAN+ and Psyscope Pro...
I used them in every project since years and none of them has ever caused any trouble in FL Studio, Reaper, Studio One and my limited experience in Bitwig...

In the manual, there's even a page about cloud-based auto-backup, wonder why?
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... -Practices

WOW, I didn't know online backups were exclusively created only for Ableton users
Live and learn...

[metaside]

I think my short journey with Live will come to a quick end...
How can so many work with it???

Maybe as many of us have never had (or even heard of) this problem? very weird- what version of Live and what OS?

Hmmm... I saw many many videos long time users were claiming about constant crashes in Ableton so Idk if this really such a rare case... perhaps they are just used to lose much work... I am not. This was really the first time in my life...

This was Suite 11.3.13 on Windows 10...
Just a few Audio tracks with beat warp mode, Ableton native devices (non M4L) and the only VST´s Sylenth, Shaperbox, Voxengo SPAN+ and Psyscope Pro...
I used them in every project since years and none of them has ever caused any trouble in FL Studio, Reaper, Studio One and my limited experience in Bitwig...

The only thing I can say is that the crashing issues on my Win-based systems do not seem to be related to VSTis, since it also happens in postprocessing projects which consist exclusively of audio tracks with effects. Never had these issues regardless of plugins used in Bitwig, Reason or RX.

I recommend to use demo versions of any DAW you think about buying and then to test your plugins in these extensively in complex projects before buying...

[Trancit]

The only thing I can say is that the crashing issues on my Win-based systems do not seem to be related to VSTis, since it also happens in postprocessing projects which consist exclusively of audio tracks with effects. Never had these issues regardless of plugins used in Bitwig, Reason or RX.

I recommend to use demo versions of any DAW you think about buying and then to test your plugins in these extensively in complex projects before buying...

Yeah... it was silly me... an impulse buy after having seen what Live 12 will have included, the sale for Suite 11 with the free upgrade to 12 and thrown all warnings to the wind...

You are absolutely right... I should have demoed it properly... most likely I would never have bought it... my own fault!

[EnGee]

The only thing I can say is that the crashing issues on my Win-based systems do not seem to be related to VSTis, since it also happens in postprocessing projects which consist exclusively of audio tracks with effects. Never had these issues regardless of plugins used in Bitwig, Reason or RX.

I recommend to use demo versions of any DAW you think about buying and then to test your plugins in these extensively in complex projects before buying...

Yeah... it was silly me... an impulse buy after having seen what Live 12 will have included, the sale for Suite 11 with the free upgrade to 12 and thrown all warnings to the wind...

You are absolutely right... I should have demoed it properly... most likely I would never have bought it... my own fault!

You are asking a very good price for it. I think if someone runs Mac OS, Live would be a good choice. I'm glad that I got rid of it some time ago though

Most of the DAWs run well on Mac! In my experience much better than on Windows. The ones that I have no problem at all with on Windows are: Bitwig, Reason, S1, Reaper, FL Studio and relatively Cubase (which runs on Mac better, but it is Ok, acceptable for me). S1 has hidden bugs don't know when it jumps at you! I lost confidence on that. FL Studio is really nice especially for fast beat making but the problem I barely know my way in it. The workflow is very alien for me, so I prefer not to invest time learning it.
Abelton Live is not useable for me on Windows. Its performance is shit really. Must wait few seconds when I change presets on most of my synths! That's stupid. I still have the intro version though just in case they fix the performance, but I won't upgrade above that.

Bitwig, Reason and Cubase are my choices on Windows while on Mac, Bitwig, Reason and Logic. Linux is great for me if I want to limit myself running Bitwig mainly with some native Linux VSTs. So, Bitwig is my favourite DAW for now, Logic comes very near second while Reason is very useable and I have a complete rack collection that makes me not in need of any VST plugins.

[SLiC]

I wonder if there will be a Live for Linux anytime soon, I think that is what my Push 3 Standalone runs on?

[EnGee]

I don't think so! I don't think the market in Linux is that big for them now. Although, I believe that Linux will step by step replaces Windows and Mac OS in many countries over the world except the US and Western Europe maybe.

[machinesworking]

Yeah... it was silly me... an impulse buy after having seen what Live 12 will have included, the sale for Suite 11 with the free upgrade to 12 and thrown all warnings to the wind...

You are absolutely right... I should have demoed it properly... most likely I would never have bought it... my own fault!

Honestly I'm pretty shocked. I've used Live on and off since 2003 and never had it lose things like that. I'm on mac os though, but that shouldn't cause this sort of difference in results?

I do know that at least on mac the main culprit is always plugins, and they can do things that do not at all look like plugin issues, but your case is bizarre. My other main DAW DP is super temperamental on PC from what people tell me, it's either stable or a total mess. I haven't run into anyone on PC with the sorts of ugly issues you have with Live though, brutal.


To be honest though, I see no way that it isn't a particular configuration (MIDI or audiuo driver) or plugin issue, becasue far too many people use Live on PC and are massive fans. The other thing could be corrupt settings for Live..

[Trancit]

Honestly I'm pretty shocked. I've used Live on and off since 2003 and never had it lose things like that. I'm on mac os though, but that shouldn't cause this sort of difference in results?

I do know that at least on mac the main culprit is always plugins, and they can do things that do not at all look like plugin issues, but your case is bizarre. My other main DAW DP is super temperamental on PC from what people tell me, it's either stable or a total mess. I haven't run into anyone on PC with the sorts of ugly issues you have with Live though, brutal.


To be honest though, I see no way that it isn't a particular configuration (MIDI or audiuo driver) or plugin issue, becasue far too many people use Live on PC and are massive fans. The other thing could be corrupt settings for Live..

If I am honest with myself, I should have known better before hand but I think I supressed my own memory because I really wanted to like it (even with some bigger WTF moments...)

Now with that bad taste in my mouth I remember better what happened when demoing earlier versions... every time I ended up deleting the demo and being sure not to buy it because of working on an idea and every single time sooner or later Live crashed when adding an M4L device or maybe VST (not sure about the latter)... the recovery worked though but nonetheless I remember now well having said to myself... nope... that not what I want!

I have seen countless (at least many) videos from bigger live tutors where was a hard cut in the video and they came back telling they just had a crash and lost the last edits of what they were just showing...
The latest I still remember was from the trance producer ReOrder ( ) in one of the latest sound design videos where he said afterwards because of the crash he couldn´t save the preset and lost all of the edits and cannot show the A/B comparisson...

So... doesn´t seem to be that rare... and I really don´t know why so many just seem to take this as given and continue with it as if there wouldn´t be a problem...

I cannot remember having this ever seen in videos about FL Studio, Reaper, Studio One or Bitwig...

I have no clue what really happened... I forgot having worked the first time now in the project I lost with Feel your Sound´s House Engine, which I had loaded but muted all the time...
As well I had from my default template loaded on the Master Monkey C´s Rewind...
I cannot really tell I want to use myself the next weeks as a lab rat to test what I may do in Live and what provokes crashes as I never had to do this in other products and still I haven´t fallen in absolute love with Live... so I think pulling the trigger here, accept the loss, trying to compensate a bit with selling the license second hand and moving on may be my best option...

It´s a pity though as I quite like the way of working (mostly) when creating the last idea...
I am still no fan of this single browser for everything restriction and it takes imho much longer getting things done and plugins loaded as elsewhere but anyway... others have their shortcomings too...
But losing my work belongs to the big no-no´s ...

[liquidsound]

My condolence... Good luck, you definitely need it.

[JerGoertz]

Folks, folks, can we just stop the arguing and answer the question: Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1?

[Trancit]

Folks, folks, can we just stop the arguing and answer the question: Live 12 or Bitwig 5.1?

Doesn´t match bad crash experience in one but not in the other this question??

I do not really seeing this as off-topic...

[machinesworking]

If I am honest with myself, I should have known better before hand but I think I supressed my own memory because I really wanted to like it (even with some bigger WTF moments...)

Now with that bad taste in my mouth I remember better what happened when demoing earlier versions... every time I ended up deleting the demo and being sure not to buy it because of working on an idea and every single time sooner or later Live crashed when adding an M4L device or maybe VST (not sure about the latter)... the recovery worked though but nonetheless I remember now well having said to myself... nope... that not what I want!

I have seen countless (at least many) videos from bigger live tutors where was a hard cut in the video and they came back telling they just had a crash and lost the last edits of what they were just showing...
The latest I still remember was from the trance producer ReOrder ( ) in one of the latest sound design videos where he said afterwards because of the crash he couldn´t save the preset and lost all of the edits and cannot show the A/B comparisson...

See that last part is just not my experience, I'm not a fan of Live's closed backup system, but at least 90% of the hard crashes I've had with Live asked me if I wanted to recover my work when Live started up again, and saved preset states.

So... doesn´t seem to be that rare... and I really don´t know why so many just seem to take this as given and continue with it as if there wouldn´t be a problem...

I cannot remember having this ever seen in videos about FL Studio, Reaper, Studio One or Bitwig...

Well partially that may be bias at work, only FL IMO is as ubiquitous of a DAW, so people aren't as protective of it's name. I've crashed FL, Bitwig, and Reaper, I'm special that way.

I have no clue what really happened... I forgot having worked the first time now in the project I lost with Feel your Sound´s House Engine, which I had loaded but muted all the time...
As well I had from my default template loaded on the Master Monkey C´s Rewind...
I cannot really tell I want to use myself the next weeks as a lab rat to test what I may do in Live and what provokes crashes as I never had to do this in other products and still I haven´t fallen in absolute love with Live... so I think pulling the trigger here, accept the loss, trying to compensate a bit with selling the license second hand and moving on may be my best option...

It´s a pity though as I quite like the way of working (mostly) when creating the last idea...
I am still no fan of this single browser for everything restriction and it takes imho much longer getting things done and plugins loaded as elsewhere but anyway... others have their shortcomings too...
But losing my work belongs to the big no-no´s ...

Yep, I appreciate DAWs that do 5 minute backups, makes the whole thing a lot less painful. To it's credit Bitwig only hangs, I don't think I've ever hard crashed it? but you're definitely losing work with a hang. It's only happened a few times and it was a plugin interface mouse move then hang, kinda obvious witch plugin it might be. The only positive side to doing a hard search for drivers, settings, or plugins that crash a DAW like Live is the culprit might take out the other DAWs. I had a reason to use Logic a while ago, and it was a complete nightmare searching out the plugins and system settings that were crashing plugin evaluation. Basically at least here with 400 odd plugins, installing a new DAW can be a journey.

[machinesworking]

I would agree, Bitwigs plugin sandboxing is a massive plus in Bitwigs favor for those of us that are plugin hoarders. So this is on topic.