Black innovation?

[Mal DuFunq]

you thought wrong my friend, go to any rap/hiphop concert, festival, show and all you'll see is white people too. do you think that means that black people
don't know about rap/hiphop.... no you don't think that do you.

Yeah, I suppose a hip-hop concert in New Zealand or Serbia or some such place where there are virtually no African Americans would be mostly all white, so yeah, you got me there. Unfortunately that's not what I was talking about. I mean, if you are implying that African-Americans don't attend hip-hop concerts and that the level of Af-Am interest and knowledge in blues and jazz is on par with that of hip hop, then you my friend have been demoted from Stale Bread to Stale Brain.

Even in Orange County, Cali with a black population of 2%, a hip-hop concert at a major venue such as the Arrowhead Pond has a crowd of about 40-50% African American. Now put on a blues festival or a jazz concert and see how many show up.

[stale bread]

that stale brain comment was funny

i live in los angeles and I make hiphop. most of the shows i go to are mostly filled with white people and definitely not 40 -50% blacks, I don't know what shows your talking about. here's a link and a little more on the phenomena.

this has been goin on since public enemy btw

http://p076.ezboard.com/fpoliticalpalac ... =296.topic

[FaX]

If I might add to this just briefly.
Am I the only person here who is offended by the overall misuse and abuse of the term "race" in the modern english vernacular?
Last time I checked we where many different nationalities.
The Human Race is infact the only race/species of human I am obviously ignorantly aware of.
It's even more offensive when ...
A)your first cousins with the same family name are FrenchAfrican/English.
B)your nephews and nieces are a mix of Anglo/Asian/Idigenous/Irish/Italian.
If any of us would have ever made a racist remark as children our parents would have friggin belted us.
It was something that was never and I mean NEVER tolerated in our home.
We where always encouraged too mix with as many people from as mmany different coutries and cultures as possible.
The school I went too had students from 57 other countries in it's year 6 student group alone.
And we all socialised in and out of school hours right up through high school into our early clubbing years etc.
I'll never forget the last time I was in the UK.
I got called a "f'ing (insert inappropriate black slang lover) whilst travelling on a train with my cousin.
My reply was firstly she's not my girlfriend she's my cousin.
We do share the same last name for a reason.
To which they logically replied - "She can't be she's black"
Yeah right !!!!!
Maybe my upbringing was a little different socially to other so called "white folk".
I honestly don't see colour or use it a basis for my treatment of any single person as an idividual.
There's good and bad in all people.
Their ethnicity or cultural background and skin colour is totally irrelevent IMHO.
I have however been quite horrified and downright ashamed of comments people have made of family members cousins etc when I was growing up.
I still am too this day.
And too this day I still cannot understand the rationale behind that level of thinking/behaviour/ideology.
Maybe I'm just naive .
Quite frankly I'm greatful for the breadth of cultural experience I was exposed to whilst growing up.

[TVD]

It seems that almost every decade of the 20th century featured a new musical form of expression, largely invented by black people in the US. Blues, Jazz, RnB, Rock, Funk, Hip-Hop, House, Techno.

House and Techno came out in the early and mid 80's. Whats been happening since then? TBH, Im not familiar enough with drum n bass to say, but, some of the early "big names" of that genre were blacks. Goldie, LTJ etc but I also remember a lot of whites involved in that scene as well.

My point is that there seems to be a bit of a lull. Where is that fresh shit that is so crazy sounding that it will take years for it to become mainstream?
Where is the new music that will strike a chord with so many people that it will become a movement, a'la hip-hop or house?

Pardon the expression but is there an "innocence lost" kind of thing happening here? (and I mean with musicians in general) After all, the business side/commercialization of music seems to be far more dominant than it ever was. This is bound to take its toll on creativity and innovation.

I would love to hear the opinions of TVD, stale bread, munchkin etc on this.

We will all finally have an answer to this question as soon as one of us (or someone in their basements, bedrooms, and attics) create something that can sell more than crunk!

And that new genre would have to come from the streets of America, Canada, or Britian in order to be taken seriously.

And I hope this new genre doesn't make the same mistaken that electronic music (especially breakbeats & trip-hop) made back in 1997 by allowing any media outlet (Read: MTV) to pin them in an rivalry against hip-hop/rap.

And finally, I also hope this new genre contains some artists that can play an instrument & compose/writing original products. NO MORE SAMPLING!!!

[TVD]

I'm sorry but I'm missing what this whole black/white topic is about?

Why does race have anything to do with it?

With classical & new ages as THE only 2 exceptions that I know of, ALL the music genres that we have today were invented by Blacks!

[TVD]

well, the ambient-syndrome is a rather white genre, and so is a lot of electronica, so kvr is kind of white...

but well, who cares?

i have to admit, a lot of music i listen to may have been invented by black people, but i usually prefer "white intrepretations" of it, it surely HAS something to do with the race/cultur/skincolor/bla, but at the same time it has nothing to do with racismn. (i just say that, because your posting has that "you are all racists" flavour, maybe it#s not what you wanted to archieve, but it reads like it )

[TVD]

How many of these genres are black innovations? how many are white?

BLACK: All the enduring, popular ones but none of the good ones.
WHITE: All of the good ones, none of the enduring popular ones.

That said, I readily admit that I like black music (so I am biased) and dont always like the results when the style mutates and starts getting produced by whites (ie TARNCE, limp bisquik etc).

I can almost guarantee that I will not like anything with any kind of black influence. Its how I divide the rock music I like from the rock I don't like - British rock has far less blues influence in general and American rock [I don't like] is tainted by blues influence.
Just to be clear, these are my labels and there are British rock bands doing American rock [Dire Straits] and American rock bands who do British rock [Green Day]. But the point is that the black influence ruins it every time.

In what way did blacks "ruined" it?

And BTW, blacks also invented the genres that EBM shoot-off from. Therefore again, if it were for blacks, there wouldn't be an EBM culture!

And even Ishkur knows better than that:
http://www.ishkur.com

[k-bird]

you thought wrong my friend, go to any rap/hiphop concert, festival, show and all you'll see is white people too. do you think that means that black people
don't know about rap/hiphop.... no you don't think that do you.

Yeah, I suppose a hip-hop concert in New Zealand or Serbia or some such place where there are virtually no African Americans would be mostly all white, so yeah, you got me there.

No he hasn't--all of the hip-hop i've seen coming from NZ has been done by Maoris, not pakehas. If you're only looking at the race of the people making and listening to hip-hop though, you're missing out on things like socio-economic status and ethnic background as well.

[TVD]

I really find the whole 'black' music thing quite offensive. They dont have 'white' music awards to often do they?

Yes: MTV Video Music Awards!!!

The more white folks (especially teens) that buys your music, the more chances that you would win one of these types of award shows.

[TVD]

Edison owns my lightbulbs.

I don't see anybody here claiming ownership of anything. How is acknowledging the influence/invention of a group of people claiming ownership?

Also, I suspect it wasn't black people who coined the phrase "black music".

edited for content, grammar, and gangsta shit

You're correct. It was originally labelled "Race Music" in america by white record labels. Later on it became Rock n Roll, Rhythm and Blues, etc etc...

...and even by THOSE words (counting hip-hop, rap, & crunk), it's still code for "black music" or "music of the street" (Read: Block Party).

[TVD]

Urban Music makes sense in my opinion. I mean you have groups like Pussycat Dolls, Sugarbabes, N.E.R.D, Thaitanium, and people like Talvin Singh and Justin Timberlake who are all different but all fall under that category and they arent all black. So it makes sense. It is music that appeals to urban youth culture. Its not just politically correct. It is descriptive of our multi-cultural, cross-polinated societies.

Hello: Madonna, Daryl Hall & John Oates, Teena Marie, George Michaels, Lisa Stansfield, & Michael McDonald have done excellent work in the field that EVEN THEY call it for what it is: black music!

In a way Lady J, urban music is a right choice of words to use.

But at the same time, "urban music" (as a phrase) is just another attempt by the media to white wash (or even make up excuses for) what is obvious the very things that save the lives/careers of Justin Tinkerland, Christina, Britney, & Eminem: black music & black culture.

And for anyone (including myself) to see or hear it as anything else is just plain faking the funk (IMHO). And you can quote me on this statement.

[TVD]

glad some people found my post useful - i guess it was worth spending time writing a long one.

anyways, Hollywood has also been remaking loads of 'foreign' films with white American actors/actresses... So yeah, colour of skin definitely does seem to have impact on ticket sales in film industry as well.

'skin colours don't matter' is a nice and appealing slogan, but you can't confuse how you wish the world to be with how the world is now.

Another difficult issue is - try to imagine that you are working for a big hollywood film production company and you are given the script for an ultra-commercial romantic comedy and asked to cast actors/actresses; do you think YOU will be colour blind in picking the cast while keeping the ticket sales in mind?

Depends.. Is Halle Berry or Beyoncé up for the part?

How about if you were casting for porn movie? Surely you will have preference for what skin colour actors/actresses you prefer? How about when people choose advertisement models?

It all depends. Right now the light-skinned, mixed ethnicity thing is in vogue as far as women. Jada, Halle, Beyoncé, Tyra..
Mainly because many suburban caucasian men find them 'exotic' and sexy.

I think skin colour preference is inevitable at the moment. I'm not sure about future, but one thing for sure is that skin colour preference does exist in large scale and if people can make better profit using this they probably will..

yeh but it can work both ways.
My current acting headshot.

I think in the future we'll all be nice and brown or tan. I look foward to it. History shows that we'll come up with some other reason for hating each other, though.

...eye color-based racism is real too!

[Ford Prefect]

we're trapped by the language filters in our heads...you can start by doing away with isms and ologies...

[VitaminD]

just another day at kvr it seems....

[Cabinfever]

It seems that almost every decade of the 20th century featured a new scientific form of expression, largely invented by white people. Computers, gene sequencing, space telescopes, radio astronomy, remote sensing.

Computers & gene sequencing came out mainly in the early and mid 80's. Whats been happening since then? TBH, Im not familiar enough with LCD display technology to say, but, some of the early "big names" of that genre were Japanese. Crick, Watson were white but I also remember a lot of Japanese involved in that scene as well.

My point is that there seems to be a bit of a lull. Where is that fresh shit that is so crazy sci-fi style that it will take years for it to become mainstream?
Where is the new science that will strike a chord with so many people that it will become a movement, a'la computers or robotics?

Pardon the expression but is there an "innocence lost" kind of thing happening here? (and I mean with scientists in general) After all, the business side/commercialization of science seems to be far more dominant than it ever was. This is bound to take its toll on creativity and innovation.

I would love to hear the opinions of people who agree with me.