How Many Units Does A Hit Synth Sell?

[eduardo_b]

I agree that the figures are meaningless. I was putting them up to show that MI Sales Trak is pretty pointless. The only thing it's really good at is showing relative sales.

Are these retailer figures or distributor numbers? I'm actually wondering how they go about obtaining these figures.

[firepile]

I agree that the figures are meaningless. I was putting them up to show that MI Sales Trak is pretty pointless. The only thing it's really good at is showing relative sales.

Are these retailer figures or distributor numbers?

"this is only the United States, and only boxed copies, and only brick-n-mortar retailers, or online retailers that have a brick-n-mortar presence."

[eduardo_b]

I agree that the figures are meaningless. I was putting them up to show that MI Sales Trak is pretty pointless. The only thing it's really good at is showing relative sales.

Are these retailer figures or distributor numbers?

"this is only the United States, and only boxed copies, and only brick-n-mortar retailers, or online retailers that have a brick-n-mortar presence."

That doesn't mean MI contacted all of these retailers. Getting sales figures from the channel would be faster and far easier.

[Crandall1]

Yes, it's my understanding that the information comes from the supply channel. All the retailers supply is sell-through, and the MI Sales Trak folks do the math themselves.

[Lotuzia]

On the other hand, it saddens me to see that at least some of these brillant guys couldn't survive without a "proper day job" to support them. Here's someone developing a wonderful instrument instead of helping Soulless MegaCorp, Inc. crunching their numbers - and he is rewarded by having a zero deleted from the wrong end of his paycheck.

So for me, this thread has shown (again) that the cynicism of many people using warez ("come on' you're all just f*ckin rich bastards!") is not justified. And while I don't think every pirated copy is a lost sale, I do believe that piracy is hurting creative people and eventually everyone who depends on their work (sales, marketing, support).

I appreciate your heartfelt post, but I rather doubt the reality of devs with day jobs would change much even if piracy were all but eliminated as an issue. Realistically, there are simply dozens of competing products in every category of music software. And given the relative size of the market, it's simply not possible for most devs to earn a comfortable living doing nothing else. A handful have spent the hours needed to create products that have rewarded them with good incomes, but the vast majority do not fall into that category. Making a living coding plug-ins doesn't seem a realistic expectation.

Well is it so complicated to deal with the fact that without piracy, the cake would be far more consistent, and as a consequence that more people would make a decent living, even by getting the same share/% of the cake ?

Seems just simple maths for me no ???

LtZ

[eduardo_b]

On the other hand, it saddens me to see that at least some of these brillant guys couldn't survive without a "proper day job" to support them. Here's someone developing a wonderful instrument instead of helping Soulless MegaCorp, Inc. crunching their numbers - and he is rewarded by having a zero deleted from the wrong end of his paycheck.

So for me, this thread has shown (again) that the cynicism of many people using warez ("come on' you're all just f*ckin rich bastards!") is not justified. And while I don't think every pirated copy is a lost sale, I do believe that piracy is hurting creative people and eventually everyone who depends on their work (sales, marketing, support).

I appreciate your heartfelt post, but I rather doubt the reality of devs with day jobs would change much even if piracy were all but eliminated as an issue. Realistically, there are simply dozens of competing products in every category of music software. And given the relative size of the market, it's simply not possible for most devs to earn a comfortable living doing nothing else. A handful have spent the hours needed to create products that have rewarded them with good incomes, but the vast majority do not fall into that category. Making a living coding plug-ins doesn't seem a realistic expectation.

Well is it so complicated to deal with the fact that without piracy, the cake would be far more consistent, and as a consequence that more people would make a decent living, even by getting the same share/% of the cake ?

Seems just simple maths for me no ???

LtZ

Even if one removes alternative sources for plug-ins, the economics don't seem aligned for the kinds of revenue that would be sufficient year after year to live on. Making $40K a year would be a lot of plug-ins.

[Crandall1]

Adam and I do okay. We're not rich, but we're not broke, either. We run Audio Damage on a wallet share model, which is somewhat different than most of our peers. A lot of products for a lower average price smooths out the bumps, and makes for a fairly consistent income.

I also have a fairly significant subsidiary income from my music making, so that helps. Adam has another business as well, an online origami store. You gotta do what you gotta do, but it sure beats the alternative, which is doing what you love in the time you're _not_ punching a clock for some other company.

[eduardo_b]

Adam and I do okay. We're not rich, but we're not broke, either. We run Audio Damage on a wallet share model, which is somewhat different than most of our peers. A lot of products for a lower average price smooths out the bumps, and makes for a fairly consistent income.

I also have a fairly significant subsidiary income from my music making, so that helps. Adam has another business as well, an online origami store. You gotta do what you gotta do, but it sure beats the alternative, which is doing what you love in the time you're _not_ punching a clock for some other company.

So the "day job" may not be all that bad.

[Lotuzia]

On the other hand, it saddens me to see that at least some of these brillant guys couldn't survive without a "proper day job" to support them. Here's someone developing a wonderful instrument instead of helping Soulless MegaCorp, Inc. crunching their numbers - and he is rewarded by having a zero deleted from the wrong end of his paycheck.

So for me, this thread has shown (again) that the cynicism of many people using warez ("come on' you're all just f*ckin rich bastards!") is not justified. And while I don't think every pirated copy is a lost sale, I do believe that piracy is hurting creative people and eventually everyone who depends on their work (sales, marketing, support).

I appreciate your heartfelt post, but I rather doubt the reality of devs with day jobs would change much even if piracy were all but eliminated as an issue. Realistically, there are simply dozens of competing products in every category of music software. And given the relative size of the market, it's simply not possible for most devs to earn a comfortable living doing nothing else. A handful have spent the hours needed to create products that have rewarded them with good incomes, but the vast majority do not fall into that category. Making a living coding plug-ins doesn't seem a realistic expectation.

Well is it so complicated to deal with the fact that without piracy, the cake would be far more consistent, and as a consequence that more people would make a decent living, even by getting the same share/% of the cake ?

Seems just simple maths for me no ???

LtZ

Even if one removes alternative sources for plug-ins, the economics don't seem aligned for the kinds of revenue that would be sufficient year after year to live on. Making $40K a year would be a lot of plug-ins.

This is not my Pov Eduardo

By personal observation my estimation of people not using legal version is at least 1 legal vs 50. A low estimation if you allow me.

Should the market only be 10 times bigger, then with the same market share, some people would be able to make a living out of their work, while they cant atm.

An equally common 'opinion' as " Pros always buy software", is often mentioned : "People would never have bought the synths if they couldnt access it another way".

I think its a false one. They wouldnt buy ALL the synths they have "acquired" for sure, but some yes. and here's my point :

Some people play music, and some other play tennis ( Some will do both) : You cant pirate your racket, or avoid renting a court. That's tennis. Now what would people tempted by the dark force do if they wanted to play tennis however ?

1/ Play on a soccer or basket area with some friends keeping a string in the middle of the court ?
2/ Play in their bedroom with old shoes as rackets and potatoes as balls ?
3/ Play in their toilets with the Playstation a tennis game ?

No they will just buy a racket and rent a court like we all do. I see tennis as a very honorable leisure. Like music.

So what would do people if they couldnt access the synths in another way ? They would just make like with their tennis rackets, playstation games and Nike shoes : Just buy them, forget about the money and enjoy their life or ......... quit music.

Now everybody here can answer this simple question : Is it so easy to quit music ?

Well my 0.002

LtZ

[eduardo_b]

By personal observation my estimation of people not using legal version is at least 1 legal vs 50. A low estimation if you allow me.

This assumes that people who use warez, like people who download music, are functioning customers who opted for the maximum discount. My sense is that some might be, but most are opportunists. If it's there, they will download it. Otherwise, nothing.

[Lotuzia]

By personal observation my estimation of people not using legal version is at least 1 legal vs 50. A low estimation if you allow me.

This assumes that people who use warez, like people who download music, are functioning customers who opted for the maximum discount. My sense is that some might be, but most are opportunists. If it's there, they will download it. Otherwise, nothing.

Yes good point I took care to take the same "some might be, while most wont be" ration ie 80% wont be and only 20% are "functionning customers" like you say. Result : A 10 times bigger market. Result : 10 times more people could live on their work.

Not so bad if you want my opinion.

And for the other 80% : ..... Nothing like you say. So you suspect its not so difficult in fact to quit music

Well ... there will always be tennis

LtZ

[eduardo_b]

By personal observation my estimation of people not using legal version is at least 1 legal vs 50. A low estimation if you allow me.

This assumes that people who use warez, like people who download music, are functioning customers who opted for the maximum discount. My sense is that some might be, but most are opportunists. If it's there, they will download it. Otherwise, nothing.

Yes good point I took care to take the same "some might be, while most wont be" ration ie 80% wont be and only 20% are "functionning customers" like you say. Result : A 10 times bigger market. Result : 10 times more people could live on their work.

Not so bad if you want my opinion.

And for the other 80% : ..... Nothing like you say. So you suspect its not so difficult in fact to quit music

Well ... there will always be tennis

LtZ

Actually, those who really are into creating music would be customers if they had the money. But many have observed that most people collect software they don't have to pay for but really don't use it. So they aren't really "quitting" music. But who really knows other than people who stopped using pirated software and came over to the side of light and goodness.

[dub3000]

i'd like to thank the devs here for posting and everyone else for keeping this thread clean.

i figure i'd share a bit of info too. i'm a hobbyist, over five years i've spent about 400 bucks on DAWs and about 1200 on plugins. i use a LOT of freeware/cover disk stuff though in addition to that. most of my recent purchases are good, single-purpose tools that don't really have any freeware equivalents of the same quality, like 'the glue'. $100USD is about my sanity limit for most plugins - anything priced above that has to look bloody amazing for me to give it a go.

i know a LOT of dudes using warez (predominantly just DAWs though, for some reason). it's hard to gently hint to these people that they're causing actual damage to real people without coming across as a dork, so i just try and keep out of that discussion most of the time. i've set up some basic systems for friends with reaper eval and 100% legit freeware stuff though so hopefully people might start getting the idea eventually... i dunno.

[hao nao]

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[glokraw]

I buy an instrument for the right to use and access the sounds within the interface provided, or use the inherent features to modify presets, or make new ones.

It does not matter if I fail to do that, for any reason, I only purchase usage and accessibility rights to the instrument.
The form of delivery usually has no effect on rights of use, boxed, bundled, or download.

The pirate who thinks, 'its OK, I'm not a pro', or 'I don't even use it very much', has nonetheless stolen the very essence of the product, which are the rights of usage and accessibility, and should be treated as any other thief.
Cheers

@ Urs you should market your considerable Z-Bomb skillz!!!