Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter

[andy-cytomic]

well the button doesn't make the filter self oscillate, so I'm think it would be a bit confusing labelling it like that. It could be self-oscable, but I'm not about to make up words for the interface

I'd simply call it "safe".

Yep, most likely the button will just be called "Safe" and be placed near the resonance knobs. The VST parameter will have the word Res before it so you know what it is referring to.

[camsr]

Usually people associate "On" or lit lights with more energy, so to have a switch turned on for self oscillation seems the most natural.

Then maybe it could be called Res Overload or Resonance Boost or something.

[andy-cytomic]

andy you did an incredible job so far..
you done the filters and they sound like the real deal, you done the envelopes, you done the lfos , you done the FM implementation (so far the best sounding of all in software! no alias but still retaining all those sparkling high frequencies).....
if u just add 3 oscillators (just standard perfect shape oscillators) i would preorder it right now and i bet many others would too.
a synth please!!!

I will do a synth in the future, don't worry, in fact I will do lots of them! I'm not going to add oscillators to the Drop, even though I coded them. In fact the LFO is one of the most complex non-sample based oscillator ever written. The code under the hood can handle an arbitrary waveforms made up of steps, lines, sines, and variably exponential / inverse exponential shapes joined together at any length. The exponential shapes are awesome for for adding movement to the LFO shape, but because they are coded like an oscillator you can tweak out with them at audio rates as well, but when you get up to audio rates all you really can hear is a buzz, so it's not so useful for an oscillator alone.

[andy-cytomic]

Is there a release date yet? Thanks!

There is no fixed release date at the moment. Once I've got a mockup of the gui layed out with vector elements and I'm happy with it and all the final DSP in place I'll make an announcement since I'll then be very sure as to the remaining time.

[andy-cytomic]

1) I like 'safe', but I think there could be a good graphical clue here too - with the 98%-100% slice of the knob travel, it could be inert/struck-out[e: 'masked'] or red and active. The button controlling the behavior could point or bracket that range.

Yep, sounds good with the markings pointing to where it will limit the res to.

2)

LDR
CSCD
SKI#1
SKI#2
SEM

Less seriously? ...
Moo?
Ju?iter
MS?0
Obe?heim

[edited SKI# to SKI#1, SKI#2 - the # has a strong visual impact which makes it jump out ... I think the acronyms get confusing when they're too close to each other, having to actually read and expand them is confusing)

Now that would really be trading off the company names for the latter, so I won't be doing that. I think the technically correct names will work, perhaps with some contractions if I need more room on the user interface.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

The actual filter circuits roughly being emulated are:
Moog Prodigy, Jupiter 8, MS20 rev1, MS20 rev2, SEM 1a

The confusing and long but technically correct names are:
Ladder, Cascade, Sallen Key 1, Sallen Key 2, State Variable

Another alternative is to use three letter acronyms, do people think these are informative and still tasteful enough?
MGF, JPF, MSF 1, MSF 2, SMF

The downside to using the technical names is that I didn't come from a synthesis background and know nothing about how these filters are constructed or why that makes them sound they way they do. DIVA got me kind of used to identifying some of these, but I still feel like taking more of a layman's explanation of the filter type will help with the naming convention. If I were to use 3 character acronyms I'd suggest: MOG, JUP, MS1, MS2, SM1.

[Shy]

I will do a synth in the future, don't worry, in fact I will do lots of them!

I don't know if you want to do it the right way or the supposedly "economically viable" way. If you choose the right way, then instead of lots of limited synths, make one synth that has it all, or most, and make it properly modular, and make other synths if their architecture can't be integrated into the modular environment.

[olikana]

I will do a synth in the future, don't worry, in fact I will do lots of them!

I don't know if you want to do it the right way or the supposedly "economically viable" way. If you choose the right way, then instead of lots of limited synths, make one synth that has it all, or most, and make it properly modular, and make other synths if their architecture can't be integrated into the modular environment.

+1
agreed....same here i'm only interested in a synth that does it all instead of different specialized synths.


and about names for filters
24dbM
24dbJ
12dbK1
12dbK2
12dbO


btw why no juno6/60 filter?? is it not the best filter ever made? ;P i think yes!

[filter303]

btw why no juno6/60 filter?? is it not the best filter ever made? ;P i think yes!

From what I've heard it uses the same IR3109 filter IC as JP8..
Just saying..

[Urs]

btw why no juno6/60 filter?? is it not the best filter ever made? ;P i think yes!

From what I've heard it uses the same IR3109 filter IC as JP8..
Just saying..

The IC is one thing... levels and circuitry around it is another. Juno 6/60 can self oscillate, JP-8 not. They do sound distinctively different.

Also, JP-8 had two major revisions. I've been told the earlier one uses different opAmps, maybe even a different structure.

[filtide]

I will do a synth in the future, don't worry, in fact I will do lots of them!

Is it your next Cytomic project after The Drop?

[Grain Bastard]

The actual filter circuits roughly being emulated are:
Moog Prodigy, Jupiter 8, MS20 rev1, MS20 rev2, SEM 1a

The confusing and long but technically correct names are:
Ladder, Cascade, Sallen Key 1, Sallen Key 2, State Variable

Another alternative is to use three letter acronyms, do people think these are informative and still tasteful enough?
MGF, JPF, MSF 1, MSF 2, SMF

The downside to using the technical names is that I didn't come from a synthesis background and know nothing about how these filters are constructed or why that makes them sound they way they do. DIVA got me kind of used to identifying some of these, but I still feel like taking more of a layman's explanation of the filter type will help with the naming convention. If I were to use 3 character acronyms I'd suggest: MOG, JUP, MS1, MS2, SM1.

If you didn't come from a synth background then your not going to know how the 'correctly named' filters sound either

I personally think that something descriptive of the filters sound or character is most useful with a detailed description of the model included in the manual for the 'geeks'. In a filterbox plugin, the synth the filter comes from isn't particually important in my opinion as they aren't really suitable for emulating said synth due to them being post-'everything else' in the synths architechture. A softsynth, then fair enough but I'd say a filter plugin is used differently and knowing its a 'Moog', 'Ladder' or 'BOB' ain't going to help you if you have no idea on its character.

If your filtering a vocal then would it would be easier to go to the 'aggressive' model and ignore the 'buttery' mode if looking for an aggressive sound???

Just a thought.

I can also see how 'name dropping' helps sell stuff and can understand why it is important but I will say that my most used filter plug is the UAD Moog one and it has f**k all to do with the fact that it has Moog, UA or anything like that associated with it. Its purely the sound and going on the demo's the Drop is going to be strong in that area too, so I shouldn't worry too much about the naming. No doubt whatever you do will piss someone off but get the sound right and people will buy it imo.

I think it might be helpful to provide a 'training' preset pack that includes a few sounds/loops to load into your daw and presets to attempt to show the characteristics of each model. By providing the sounds you will have a known quantity to tweak the filter to (tone, volume dynamics etc) that you can then attempt to describe in the manual and people can hear the exact same differences themselves - You never know what people will be running thru the plugin so presets alone might not be enough to highlight each models strong areas. That would satisfy those who want to learn quickly and the 'load-it-up-and-blindly-tweak' users can ignore it and teach themselves as they go along.

Just MHO.

[highkoo]

I will do a synth in the future, don't worry, in fact I will do lots of them!

Is it your next Cytomic project after The Drop?

This thread is going to end up being on the front page for two years.

Almost halfway there without a release date, and we're talking about the next project.

[filtide]

Almost halfway there without a release date, and we're talking about the next project.

and not talking about a possible u-he venture or cooperation

[andy-cytomic]

..
and about names for filters
24dbM
24dbJ
12dbK1
12dbK2
12dbO


btw why no juno6/60 filter?? is it not the best filter ever made? ;P i think yes!

There will be a 2 pole / 4 pole switch for the low and high pass, so no need to include this in the name.

As pointed out the Juno6 is an almost identical circuit as the JP8, but the JP8 has a 2 / 4 pole switch, the jfets TR21A and TR20A which block / allow voltage coming from either the second or fourth low pass stage of the filter to the output amp.

juno6-jupiter8-filter-schematics.jpg