One Synth Challenge #72: Eclipsis by VSTZONE (Richard Semper Wins!)

[Mojo42]

Hi all, time for the final news and the final questions.

First the final news and hopefully my last shock: Automation also doesn`t work!!! YEHAAAAAAAA. Yes it is true.

I was almost finished with my song (95%) and so I made a test mixdown, I was happy with the mixdown and glad that all turned out so well under this horrible conditions and then I added automation to all instances because I wished to make a nice fade out and then BAM my lead voice got muted partially again

Ooooooooookay. I removed automation, but the bug stayed no matter what I did. My song was damaged again. YEHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

I made a short break for to recover my nerves from all this "adventures" then I shut down cubase, opened it up again and I got an error report: The vst bridge is burst off and I shall remove incompatible plug ins *lol*. The only plug in I used was Eclipsis itself. Do you understand the joke?

Close to a final nervous breakdown I loaded an earlier version of my project and was glad that it was just few work what I needed to do again.

I dared to add a little bit reverb, but apart from that I didn`t make anything at all anymore with it, because I was just too much scared about the consequences. I exported to audio how z.prime recommended and tried final Mastering, also first as a test.

I put the tools in this order as insert effects: MHORSE P3, then TDR Kotelnikov and at last Limiter 6. I just selected presets, because I have no clue.

The result is: It actually sounds better now, it sounds also a little bit louder (but not much) but the strange thing is:
I checked out the statistics and the mastered track has now a loudness of -34.74 dB which is less loud (would Mr. Spock say) than the original track which is -10.41 dB now. This means that I`m completely confused now. If 0 dB is the loudest and all what is minus dB is less loud than the mastered track must be less loud than the original track, but in fact it sounds louder. Can anyone explain this to me? Have I done something wrong? What does this statistics mean?

Concerning the fade out plans: Fortunately it is possible to fade out an audio track too

@jdruery: Can it be that you have made something with the sound? When I listened it first time my impression was that it sounds a bit dull and now it seems to be more sharp and clear. But my ears are not well trained in this issue and so I have to ask. However, the track is beautiful. Very calm and meditative, I often listen such kind music for relaxing. Good luck

[Parduz]

If 0 dB is the loudest and all what is minus dB is less loud than the mastered track must be less loud than the original track, but in fact it sounds louder.

Not an expert at all, but AFAIK perceived loudness is related also to "Saturation". I've read an article about this and other psycoacoustic phenomens a couple of weeks ago but i can't remember where.... try to google for these terms, anyway.

[spidergod]

these links explain some of it :

http://productionadvice.co.uk/brickwall-limiters/

http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/a-b ... audio-1071

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/processing/

http://ethanwiner.com/compressors.html

[mehum]

Hi,

Totally new member on KVR, found out about the OSC a few days ago so thought it'd be a fun thing to join. Haven't been seriously made music in a while and this seemed like a good way to force myself to be creative

Not much of a forum person but this seems like a very friendly community. I might just join another challenge some other month.

I wanted to get into this with a clean slate so haven't yet listened to any other entries. Excited to hear what everyone has come up with!

So here's my song, Beta Persei B:
https://soundcloud.com/neophile/betaperseib

I hope I have properly submitted it... Tried adding it to the group...

Made with Reaper.
17 instances of Eclipsis.
Sounds made from scratch. I didn't have a clear patch to start from though and in some cases I may have kept a modulation setting or something from the sound I started some. They're all heavily edited though so they're basically "original". If anybody's interested I can upload the patches I made.

I don't have a count of all fx used, so here's a list of all tracks with extra effects:
Main bass : Slick HDR, ReaComp (sidechained), TDR VOS SlickEQ
Drone bass: ReaComp (sidechained)
Group track for melody synths: SlickEQ
Group track for chord synths: SlickHDR, ReaEq
Pad synth: ReaComp (sidechained)
Group track for drums: SlickHDR, SlickEQ
Kick: Simulanalog Boss SD-1, ReaComp
Master: SlickHDR, SlickEQ, Limiter No6

Two of the tracks have automation:
Main bass: portamento and oscillator amp decay
Delayed arpeggio synth: filter cutoff

I'm not 100% satisfied with how it turned out, the arrangement and especially drum programming is a bit lazy, theme is not really evolving, no proper transitions, a bit rythmically busy in the mid frequencies at times and I probably overdid it with the limiter since there's not much of dynamics left... It was, however, fun and challenging to make all the sounds just using Eclipsis.

Certainly a powerful and good sounding synthesizer but seems a little bit like a beta version. Some great ideas regarding workflow but also some very unintuitive parts... For this challenge I was mostly missing envelope for frequency and filter modulations and perhaps a master filter. I also think the effect order is wrong but it's mostly a preference (perhaps make it routable , I want the delay first and reverb last ). I'd also like the choice to turn of triggering of the LFO:s so that they're always running and not resetting for every note. I also had some stability and noise issues. Stability improved once I had it running in a dedicated process so it's most certainly a 64 bit bridging issue.

Other than that, kudos to the developer! Unique and still versatile. The sounds I managed to get from it were both spaced out and useful.

Thanks,
/Anton

[bjporter]

Hi,

Totally new member on KVR, found out about the OSC a few days ago so thought it'd be a fun thing to join. Haven't been seriously made music in a while and this seemed like a good way to force myself to be creative

Not much of a forum person but this seems like a very friendly community. I might just join another challenge some other month.

Thanks,
/Anton

Hi Anton, welcome!

I enjoyed reading your post.

Also Nice drop in your song after 4:00, very interesting.

[mehum]

Thanks a lot! Glad you enjoyed the beat!

[Mojo42]

If 0 dB is the loudest and all what is minus dB is less loud than the mastered track must be less loud than the original track, but in fact it sounds louder.

Not an expert at all, but AFAIK perceived loudness is related also to "Saturation". I've read an article about this and other psycoacoustic phenomens a couple of weeks ago but i can't remember where.... try to google for these terms, anyway.

I did already ask google. This whole audio mastering theme just starts right now for me. The months before I had to learn how to use Cubase and how to record a song at all. Then I dealt with synthesizer programming and with mixdown and now I have to deal with mastering. It is just: I`m not as far enough for to produce and post a song not to mention to enter a contest , originally it is too early for me. Understand?

But they "chained" and "dragged" me to here as you might remember and now I have to master this challenge anyhow. Of course google would help if I would have 2 months in addition for to edit my song and post it then. But I have to post my song in the following days and so I haven`t got the time for to study mastering first and understand all this just in 24 hours. That`s the problem. That is why I asked.

In short: Is around -30.00 dB loud enough or not??? Very simple question. Can someone answer this? There is a make up knob at the compressor, I could use it for making the song louder if necessary. But first I need something for orientation. I don`t know how other people reach a loudness of 0 dB, I mostlikely will learn this, but not in one single night.

@spidergod: Many thanks for the links. I started to read and also bookmarked them, but as mentioned above: I don`t have got the time for to studying this whole mastering theme in one night. I need quick and simple answers now. At least the order of the tools seems to be right after all I have read until now.

Okay I will make a bit try and error tonight and hope that I can get this song a bit louder because I have got the suspicion that is actually not loud enough. I know because I have listened it on my laptop and even if I push the volume to it`s maximum it is really not loud. So: I suppose I have done something wrong here and hoped some of you could tell me what I have done wrong when I tell you the dB values.

I just need an average dB value as an orientation. I will not reach 0 dB, because I have no idea how. I was at -10.00 dB which is probably okay if I compare it with reference songs, now I`m at -30.00 dB and I suppose that this means that some sh*t happens during this final steps I made at my song. I need someone telling me what is the least/lowest -yxz dB value I use for posting my song in public. I hope that I have make my question more clear now. When I know this average/least/lowest -xyz dB value then I could try to reach it and hope that I can get it this night. To know that 0 dB is the holy grail is fine, but as said kind of utopia for me at the moment.
Cheers
Yvonne

@mehun: Welcome Intresting track. Good luck.

[z.prime]

I'm not exactly sure where you are getting -10db and -34.74 dB. If you're talking PEAK, that sounds way too low. Just add something to scale the volume up before the limiter. And get it to peak around 0db. Just watch the output meter of the DAW or whatever is showing you output levels after the limiter. It should be going up to close to 0. If it's nowhere near, just turn it up until it is!!

[z.prime]

... I mean, if you upload to soundcloud and then listen an average other track. Then listen to yours. Do you have to turn your volume up to 1000 in order to hear it? Or is it about the same? It's not a magic art. It's just getting the volume level about the same as other things so the listener doesn't have to crank up the volume or think they're listening to silence after listening to something at normal levels.

[bjporter]

I just need an average dB value as an orientation. I will not reach 0 dB, because I have no idea how. I was at -10.00 dB which is probably okay if I compare it with reference songs, now I`m at -30.00 dB and I suppose that this means that some sh*t happens during this final steps I made at my song. I need someone telling me what is the least/lowest -yxz dB value I use for posting my song in public. I hope that I have make my question more clear now. When I know this average/least/lowest -xyz dB value then I could try to reach it and hope that I can get it this night. To know that 0 dB is the holy grail is fine, but as said kind of utopia for me at the moment.
Cheers
Yvonne.

To be dead honest, mastering / volume won't likely alter your One Synth Challenge standing or people's overall opinion of the track. I think the biggest thing by far is mixing, sound design / track sound / composition.

Soundcloud quality never concerned me once when listening, and certainly never ever effected my voting, however we do supply a high quality download of all tracks in a zip file of course for those that do, but I think they are a minority.

[mehum]

In short: Is around -30.00 dB loud enough or not??? Very simple question. Can someone answer this? There is a make up knob at the compressor, I could use it for making the song louder if necessary. But first I need something for orientation. I don`t know how other people reach a loudness of 0 dB, I mostlikely will learn this, but not in one single night.

I need quick and simple answers now.

@mehun: Welcome Intresting track. Good luck.

Thanks!

As for the quick and simple answer:
Don't stress it, less is more if you're not comfortable with the tools. You're more likely to make it worse than make it better.
This is what I would have done in your position:
1. Mix everything as good as you can, try to get a good balance between the different channels. Make sure none of the tracks clip (go into red).
2. Play through the track and take note of the meter at the master channels. I believe in Cubase you will see max level since last reset. In that case, reset (i think by clicking the peak indicator).
3. If the master channel did peak at any point during the playthrough, note where in the song it's clipping.
Here you have a few choices: either play with the channel levels again, pulling down the volume of the offending instruments, automate a volume change, or the simplest: turn the master level down until it's not clipping.
If the master level stays well below -0dBFS it should be safe to turn the master level up a bit.
4. Repeat step 2-3 until you have a decent level and no clipping.
5. Mixdown to a stereotrack.

If, in this process, you notice one or a few very large peaks which makes the whole rest of the track much much lower, try to tame just those peaks. That's basically what a compressor or limiter will do anyway. Better to have it done when mixing or even arranging.

I hope these tips will help!

[mehum]

I just need an average dB value as an orientation. I will not reach 0 dB, because I have no idea how. I was at -10.00 dB which is probably okay if I compare it with reference songs, now I`m at -30.00 dB and I suppose that this means that some sh*t happens during this final steps I made at my song. I need someone telling me what is the least/lowest -yxz dB value I use for posting my song in public. I hope that I have make my question more clear now. When I know this average/least/lowest -xyz dB value then I could try to reach it and hope that I can get it this night. To know that 0 dB is the holy grail is fine, but as said kind of utopia for me at the moment.

Thing is, mastering is not really about reaching the highest volume. I know it seems to have become that in modern music but it's actually not primary what it's about.
In simple terms mastering is just the last chance to make a track (or tracks) sound as good as possible. The goal is very much dependent on the target medium. For vinyl mastering is absolutely crucial, mainly for two reasons: The noise floor is relatively high, so silent parts might get lost in noise, and the needle will skip if especially bass is mixed too high or have to much stereo content. If you're making a dance track you probably want to master for a large sound system. If you're making an album or compilation you want the volume and perhaps general sound of all songs to be close.
For all other purposes: Do what makes it sound as GOOD as possible, not as LOUD as possible. Do as much as possible in the performances, arrangement and the mix. Try listening in a few different devices. I'm no mastering engineer and have no "golden ears", but I try to give it a listen in my studio speakers, earbuds from my phone, small bluetooth speaker etc. Does it sound ok? Then I'm happy. If something sounds bad it's usually not most effectively fixed by changing the mastering but the specific tracks.

Sorry about the rant
Just want you to not feel that mastering is something you really need to do. Focus on the arrangement instead and you have most of the mastering already done!

[Mojo42]

Thanks to you all I guess I understand now. I made already what is described here. The output parameter at my DAW is around 0 dB. I also made sure that it not moves into the yellow or even red area. The maximum peak (if I understand this english term right) is -7.12 dB.

I also understood that mastering is not making a song as loud as possible. It is just: All what I have read until now is actually this: A song must be as loud as possible for to be good and so I supposed this aspect would be very important. But it seems that it is not. That`s very calming and in this sense I will focused myself tonight on my final mixdown and hope that it will be okay then.

Sorry for bothering you all so heavily It`s just I`m unsure in almost each aspect because this is all new and hard to get for me. It is only my love to music which motivates me to deal with all this technical stuff one need a graduate degree for to understand or at least ages for to learn.

Okay. I will take a deep breath and end this song now Om

Thanks

[esteband]

I submitted my track a little too soon. I was never happy with it, but as a new dad with a rather challenging baby at home, I decided I had given this contest enough of my time. Afterwards, however, I regretted submitting it in such an unfinished state and began to touch my track some more whenever I had a break from baby duty. I re-made the kick drum and did lots of various mixing tweaks and got it to a point that's far from perfect, but much more satisfactory.

So now I'm ready to bounce the final re-mix. Everything sounds fine when i listen real-time in FL-Studio BUT... once, I export it, it sounds TERRIBLE. There are all kinds of clicks and pops that happen, usually around the attack of the kick drum. In addition, there's some aliasing that sounds a lot like a sample-rate mismatch. I've double and triple checked all of my settings and can't find any reason for this sound to show up in the rendered mix.

FWIW, I usually work in 48k sample rate, so all of the Eclipsis tracks that I bounced out were bounced at 48k as well. My Firepod interface is set to 48k, too. Still, the exported file, whether WAV or mp3, still has those awful pops and the sample-rate-mismatch sound.

I have tried disabling certain plugins on the master channel, but was unable to isolate any of them as the culprit.

Have any other FL users run into a similar problem and found a solution? I'd love to resubmit my best possible mix. I hope someone can help...

Best,

-Steve

[mehum]

@mojo: Good luck! If the meter shows -7.1 db it means it's safe to add 7db on the master control.