Swayed v1.0.3 - available now!

[gueims]

Hi.
Just wondering if there will be any posibility to add midi out sysex messages to allow direct manipulation of the real thing. As a Tg77 user that will be an instant purchase for me.

[Uncle E]

Don't use "Quick Reply" - use the "Full Editor"

Also, in the Full Editor, uncheck "Disable BBCode".

[banal65]

solved

[banal65]

That was the issue, thanks

Don't use "Quick Reply" - use the "Full Editor"

Also, in the Full Editor, uncheck "Disable BBCode".

[soundman007]

Deleted by user

[sheaf]

Exactly - that's what I'm hoping to find so I can fully convert the data card format into the SYX file. and this is the last piece to do... I figured that the data layout of the card format was likely to be more or less the same as the SYX data, and this turns out to be the case, apart from some details (eg, the data is 8-bit and doesn't need to be split across two 7-bit bytes like it does for sysex messages), and the wave source is one.

Nice! Maybe this github page could be of some help: https://github.com/DerekCook/YamahaSynthFileFormats/
Several file formats are documented here, though I'm not sure about the voice card format.

The RY30/RM50 cards have their samples stored an octave up for space reasons, so you need to shift each PCM sample down an octave for the correct playback.

Is this maybe documented somewhere? To me it sounds as if an octave down would be too much. Most SY77 samples have a nominal sample rate of 48000Hz, but then they pitch them down 600 to 700 cents, giving an effective sample rate that's closer to 32000Hz. To my ears the those drums sound most natural when pitched down 6 or 7 semitones too, but I could be wrong. If it's really an octave they have an effective sample rate of 24000Hz. Seems a bit low, even for that time.

Either way, it's weird that this pitching is not stored in the card itself.

I'm just organising presets and I have a small request:

When you use "MOVE/RENAME" to move a preset to a different bank, it copies it (so the original remains) rather than moves it - so you have to delete the original one. There's plenty of room in that info area - maybe we could have a separate "MOVE" button as well as "COPY/RENAME"?
Thanks.

MOVE is supposed to delete the original one, so it sounds like a bug, I'll check it out.

Hi.
Just wondering if there will be any posibility to add midi out sysex messages to allow direct manipulation of the real thing. As a Tg77 user that will be an instant purchase for me.

It is on the todo list, but it will be a while before I get to it. I'd like the plugin to also be able to function as an editor for the hardware.

[beely]

Nice! Maybe this github page could be of some help: https://github.com/DerekCook/YamahaSynthFileFormats/
Several file formats are documented here, though I'm not sure about the voice card format.

Thanks I'll take a look, I wasn't aware of those docs. On a quick look, it's mostly got the wave card data, and the memory/data layout (which is already fairly well covered by the SY77 sysex documentation), but I'll have a scan through for anything helpful. The data card BIN layout does have some weird things going on in there and it would nice to have better docs on what they are doing, but I'm just kinda working around it. I can already convert the voice data to valid sysex that matches the original syx data, I've just got a few of spots to refine and investigate...

Edit: Actually some of the TNN layout might explain some of this stuff, like how the data is grouped into SY77_SMALL_VOICE and SY77_LARGE_VOICE sections and the padding bytes etc... It looks like the BIN data is essentially the TNN file, so this is definitely useful and explains some things (wow the data is super padded out!). Thanks for the pointer!

Is this maybe documented somewhere? To me it sounds as if an octave down would be too much. Most SY77 samples have a nominal sample rate of 48000Hz, but then they pitch them down 600 to 700 cents, giving an effective sample rate that's closer to 32000Hz. To my ears the those drums sound most natural when pitched down 6 or 7 semitones too, but I could be wrong. If it's really an octave they have an effective sample rate of 24000Hz. Seems a bit low, even for that time.

You might be right, I can't remember the details offhand - I did investigate this a while back and yeah the sample encoding was documented somewhere. I'll dig out my RM50 and original wave cards from the roof and check. Actually, I've got some notes from when I looked at this some years ago... it looks like the default sample rates/pitches vary by sample, as a storage efficiency. Here's an example from the Matt Sorum card (which I own), listing the voices, their stored sample sizes, and the pitching you need to do to get each to sound at the default pitch:

Code: Select all

Matt Sorum - SY Wave Card File: RSC3073, 19
Waves 		(15, 251904)
01: BD1		(1, 14108)		-12
02: SD1 Hard	(1, 20252)		-12
03: SD2 Hard	(1, 25372)		-12
04: SD2 Soft	(1, 15388)		-12
05: SD3 Hard	(1, 13596)		-12
06: SD4 Hard	(1, 15388)		-12
07: HHClosed	(1, 5660)		-9
08: HHHwy	(1, 15900)		-6
09: HHQtr	(1, 18460)		-12
10: HHOpen	(1, 18204)		-9
11: Tom 1	(1, 20252)		-18
12: Tom 2	(1, 19484)		-18
13: Tom 3	(1, 20508)		-18
14: Tom 4	(1, 21020)		-18
15: Cymbell	(1, 8220)		-16

Either way, it's weird that this pitching is not stored in the card itself.

It's possible it is stored in the wavecards somewhere, as the RM50 will play the voices at their correct pitch without having to do workarounds afaicr, and I think sy.factory does as well. But I forget the details without going to look - I'll maybe have another look at that after I'm done with the data card conversion...

[ReiKru]

I don`t see the original factory Presets. That`s what i want.

[banal65]

I don`t see the original factory Presets. That`s what i want.

https://bobbyblues.recup.ch/yamaha_sy77 ... tml#Yamaha

[ReiKru]

thx

[abi]

Are there plans to make it possible to use cursor keys for preset switching? would be great as there are so many great presets to check out!

[sheaf]

Code: Select all

Matt Sorum - SY Wave Card File: RSC3073, 19
Waves 		(15, 251904)
01: BD1		(1, 14108)		-12
02: SD1 Hard	(1, 20252)		-12
03: SD2 Hard	(1, 25372)		-12
04: SD2 Soft	(1, 15388)		-12
05: SD3 Hard	(1, 13596)		-12
06: SD4 Hard	(1, 15388)		-12
07: HHClosed	(1, 5660)		-9
08: HHHwy	(1, 15900)		-6
09: HHQtr	(1, 18460)		-12
10: HHOpen	(1, 18204)		-9
11: Tom 1	(1, 20252)		-18
12: Tom 2	(1, 19484)		-18
13: Tom 3	(1, 20508)		-18
14: Tom 4	(1, 21020)		-18
15: Cymbell	(1, 8220)		-16

That's helpful, thanks! I'll take another look at the files.

Are there plans to make it possible to use cursor keys for preset switching? would be great as there are so many great presets to check out!

Yes, I have this implemented. It will be in v1.0.1.

I think I'll release 1.0.1 this weekend since it already contains several fixes and improvements that people can benefit from, even though there are still some other open issues that I'm sorting out. Probably better to release regularly instead of batching everything in a huge update.

[TheBorga]

Good morning, everyone. I snapped up this magnificent VST straight away. For me, it’s like going back to my teenage years when I used to play on the real thing. As well as the obvious compliments on the splendid work you’ve done, I’d like to mention a small detail that would, however, be greatly appreciated (at least by me): namely, the ability to navigate through the preset banks using the keyboard shortcuts. I think that would be an extremely useful feature!

[beely]

That's helpful, thanks! I'll take another look at the files.

Importing the RY30/RM50 WAVE cards into sy.factory, it's the Detune parameter in the sample list that defines the pitch at the root note - so if it's set to, say -1024 on a drum hit, that's a -12 semitone transpose down. Longer samples usually require more detuning. So yes, it looks like that data is in the card data somewhere (though I haven't analysed that).

So ideally when importing those wave cards, Swayed should read the root pitch and detune value and transpose the samples internally so that a visible transpose in the UI of 0 is the intended sample pitch incorporating that internal detune setting.

(I've attached my list of detune values for each sample on all 8 wavecards, if that's helpful).

[sheaf]

Good morning, everyone. I snapped up this magnificent VST straight away. For me, it’s like going back to my teenage years when I used to play on the real thing. As well as the obvious compliments on the splendid work you’ve done, I’d like to mention a small detail that would, however, be greatly appreciated (at least by me): namely, the ability to navigate through the preset banks using the keyboard shortcuts. I think that would be an extremely useful feature!

Thank you! Yes, that feature is ready and will be in the next update.

That's helpful, thanks! I'll take another look at the files.

Importing the RY30/RM50 WAVE cards into sy.factory, it's the Detune parameter in the sample list that defines the pitch at the root note - so if it's set to, say -1024 on a drum hit, that's a -12 semitone transpose down. Longer samples usually require more detuning. So yes, it looks like that data is in the card data somewhere (though I haven't analysed that).

So ideally when importing those wave cards, Swayed should read the root pitch and detune value and transpose the samples internally so that a visible transpose in the UI of 0 is the intended sample pitch incorporating that internal detune setting.

(I've attached my list of detune values for each sample on all 8 wavecards, if that's helpful).

Ah, it looks there is a transpose at the multisample level, which is what these cards use (but not the others), and a detune at the sample level. I was only applying the latter, but got it working properly now. Thank you!