Re: FYI - Cubase 4 No Longer Supports DirectX Plugins

[headquest]

ANd yet... Cakewalk are WAY ahead of Steinberg it would seem in implementing everything POSITIVE about 64-bit technology, while Steinberg have only tackled what they can (unexpectedly) drop, and not what they can positively embrace...

Tracktion has had a 64-bit mix engine for nearly 2 years already!! I find it strange that Steinberg are so behind when it comes to positive developments. I wonder exactly WHEN Steinberg will have 64-bit mixing, an X64 version, or be Vista-ready...

Lastly, I think it is fantastic that we have the porduct manager for Sonar right here discussing this on KVR, in spite of some hostility. I cannot imagine his Steinberg equivalent coming anywhere near this place!!!

[derek]

well, who has done what concerning 64bit in general seems a bit OT imo, the bottom line here is that from vista 64bit on, no sequencer will support any of the existing DX plugins anymore, which hasnt been really clear before (before, all we had was a slightly foggy statement about "taking backwards compability seriously", which in itself is nice, yet doesnt change the DX thing above).

as far as the 64bit thing goes, i want an 64bit setup ASAP so that my computer can handle larger sample libraries without a 2 or 4GB limit (too low these days). as far as i understand, most apps including the steinberg stuff has been 64bit ready for a while and its really more about the OS and the drivers.

i dont care one bit about 64bit mixing. marketing gimmick. nuff said :-)

[Spookyrockstar]

Lastly, I think it is fantastic that we have the porduct manager for Sonar right here discussing this on KVR, in spite of some hostility. I cannot imagine his Steinberg equivalent coming anywhere near this place!!!

+1 infinity

Mr. Westner, I've been using Cakewalk since it's DOS version, and for my own reasons, I jumped ship right around sonar 3.

Your customer support shows that Cakewalk will be there in both the bad times *as well as* the good.

I'm not one to BASH hosts like many, everyone has their own vibe and workflow that keeps them inspired, and that's totally their right.

However, in *my* case, the 'affair' is over, and I'm coming back to my long time love, if you guys will have me!
Til then, I've got some catching up to do with the new features of three versions.

Thanks for being visible, helpful, and informative!

Ahhh damn, I think I'm now gonna be branded as a fan-boy.

[stag]

Lastly, I think it is fantastic that we have the porduct manager for Sonar right here discussing this on KVR, in spite of some hostility. I cannot imagine his Steinberg equivalent coming anywhere near this place!!!

So now Sonar users are going to dictate Steinberg relation with their customers?!
Interesting... Once installed Cubase i was invited to register it and adressed to a site where there is all Steinberg help center,knowlledege base, list of retaillers and naturally an appropriate place to leave questions.
Perhaps they don't believe forums are a good way of claryfying situations, and probably they are rigth because a thread about the drop of DX plugs support in Cubase goes on for 18 pages.
The intervention of developers on earlier pages where not enough as it is now: Cubase will not support DX because it's DX fault not Steinberg's. Plugs will have to be rewritten in order to run on 64 bit OS, so better written them VST version first, because this format seems to be the industry standart now... ence seems that communication in forum is easily derailed and the facts more than often obscured by the sidetrack remarks, as this one and mucho noise.

There is something wrong here anyway, were are the so called Steinberg fanboys??? c'mon fellas show up you're not breaking any ethycal written\unwritten code here by saying Cubase kicks ass .

[kp]

Presumably, one can still run the 32 bit version of SONAR in 64 bit Vista (much like you can with XP64) which *can* access all current 32 bit DX/DXi plug-ins?

[whyterabbyt]

So now Sonar users are going to dictate Steinberg relation with their customers?!

Since when was 'I cant imagine X happening' equivalent to 'dictating' anything. Dont be an ass.

[derek]

Presumably, one can still run the 32 bit version of SONAR in 64 bit Vista (much like you can with XP64) which *can* access all current 32 bit DX/DXi plug-ins?

if thats possible i dont see a reason why that shouldnt be possible with SX too.

basically this really means that all users are facing the same "DX cut", steinberg not being the only one but just the first one to do it.

[whyterabbyt]

basically this really means that all users are facing the same "DX cut", steinberg not being the only one but just the first one to do it.

Nope. There's still a major difference between 'will not support DX from now on' and 'cannot support 32-bit DX plugins on a 64-bit OS, can support 32-bit DX plugins under a 32-bit OS, and can support DX plugins which have been recompiled as 64-bit DX plugins under a 64-bit OS'

[stag]

First, why should Steinberg develop two different apps, one to run on 32bit and other to run 64 bit?
Second, what's in the way of devs not to release VST3 versions of their DX plugs, as long or before they compile 64x DX version?
Third, what in the world as to do dedicated pro support with hanging on fora and tripping with other users, even developers from other platforms, shure anxious to lend a help, not to speak of lesser commited "users", to spread missinforation, confusion or they own personal agenda?

As i said before, kudos to Cakewalk, great apps! But i think i just had my dose of great apps... oh, btw, good luck with VST3 implemmentation and the 64bit OS transition.

Bye.

PS: Cannot\will not\ whatever, Steinberg should, IMO, be focused on VST, as other devs are on their own formats. FXPansion will take care of the matters as usual... I think.

[whyterabbyt]

First, why should Steinberg develop two different apps, one to run on 32bit and other to run 64 bit?

where was it mooted that they should?

Second, what's in the way of devs not to release VST3 versions of their DX plugs, as long or before they compile 64x DX version?

Nothing except the almost-certainly-significant overhead of adjusting to the new API. You do know that even 2.4 has been a PITA for folks, dont you?

Third, what in the world as to do dedicated pro support with hanging on fora and tripping with other users, even developers from other platforms, shure anxious to lend a help, not to speak of lesser commited "users", to spread missinforation, confusion or they own personal agenda?

I have no idea what you just tried to say.

As i said before, kudos to Cakewalk, great apps! But i think i just had my dose of great apps... oh, btw, good luck with VST3 implemmentation and the 64bit OS transition.

CW have already done the 64-bit OS transition. Its Steinberg moving the goalposts for their own ends on the VST API that'll be problematic, for them and everyone else that just happens to compete with Steinberg. Funny that.

[Alex Westner]

well, who has done what concerning 64bit in general seems a bit OT imo, the bottom line here is that from vista 64bit on, no sequencer will support any of the existing DX plugins anymore, which hasnt been really clear before (before, all we had was a slightly foggy statement about "taking backwards compability seriously", which in itself is nice, yet doesnt change the DX thing above).

Not quite.

It's actually very simple to port a 32-bit DX plug-in into 64-bit DX. You pretty much just need to recompile. That's it - for real.

We ship SONAR 5 and SONAR 6 with 64-bit DX plug-ins.

Both 32-bit DX and 64-bit DX plugs are still supported in Vista.

The only thing you can't do is load a 32-bit DX plug in a 64-bit app.

as far as the 64bit thing goes, i want an 64bit setup ASAP so that my computer can handle larger sample libraries without a 2 or 4GB limit (too low these days). as far as i understand, most apps including the steinberg stuff has been 64bit ready for a while and its really more about the OS and the drivers.

Steinberg's apps have not yet been compiled into x64, so they will still not be able to access greater than 4GB of RAM.

i dont care one bit about 64bit mixing. marketing gimmick. nuff said

Not a gimmick, but we can save that for another thread.

[Watto]

Same is true with our AudioSnap feature set (compared to AudioWarp, Beat Detective, etc.)

Sonar's AudioSnap is better than Beat Detective?! I'd better try the demo!

[Alex Westner]

Perhaps they don't believe forums are a good way of claryfying situations, and probably they are rigth because a thread about the drop of DX plugs support in Cubase goes on for 18 pages.
The intervention of developers on earlier pages where not enough as it is now: Cubase will not support DX because it's DX fault not Steinberg's. Plugs will have to be rewritten in order to run on 64 bit OS, so better written them VST version first, because this format seems to be the industry standart now... ence seems that communication in forum is easily derailed and the facts more than often obscured by the sidetrack remarks, as this one and mucho noise.

Not true. Let's stick to the facts, as you suggest:

It's a very simple process to make a 64-bit DX plug-in. You just need to recompile it - not rewrite it.

All of SONAR's DX plug-ins have been recompiled into DX64 since SONAR 5.

[Alex Westner]

Presumably, one can still run the 32 bit version of SONAR in 64 bit Vista (much like you can with XP64) which *can* access all current 32 bit DX/DXi plug-ins?

Yes, that's definitely another great option!

[kp]

And I'd argue that most people will be running 32 bit versions of VISTA anyway. Why?

Because i) very few hardware manufacturers will have 64 bit VISTA drivers ready in the near future, ii) WDM (XP) drivers work in 32 bit VISTA already and iii) 64 bit VISTA drivers (but not 32 bit ones) need to be signed, and that costs. And we all know how hardware companies love spending money to develop and deliver new drivers.

Especially for older hardware, I'd say you're screwed going to 64 bit VISTA for some time.

So having a 32 bit host is going to remain important for some time. *Not* developing a 32 bit VISTA compatible host is going to be a really, really dumb move: I can't believe that Steinberg or any other audio company would make just a 64 bit VISTA version of their software for several years to come.