KVR Audio

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:29 pm

egbert wrote:No sweat MrD - there are contradictions galore in all of this. I don't really see any need to dig at Mr K over this though. He has already stated that he thinks Daniel's compressor deserves to be evaluated on it's own merits and not in terms of how well it clones a particular hardware unit's sound. Seems fair enough to me.

Now that makes sense. I'm not trying to dig at the K-Man; he's just always wary of "snake-oil" claims, and I'm never quite sure how much worth to put into the whole mix-bus compressor thing. Really, I was just pressing for more information, as I hadn't heard that the SSL Bus compressor was quite so...thrifty.

egbert wrote:The main value of this is to bump the 2095 thread in case anyone doesn't know about this baby. It is a gem - I use it on bass and drums quite a bit and I totally agree with above sentiments about the results on pianos. I have used it on sax and trumpet with pleasing results too.

Sax and trumpet! Interesting. Yeah, I've done vocals, drums, bass, synths, it's very versatile. Much love to this compressor, thanks for bearing with me.

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:12 pm

with some clever modifications the SSL bus comp can be made into a flexible work horse (basically attacking the side chain with power tools and a soldering iron). When used 'as is', it's really just a step above Behringer composer, design wise. It's a decent bread and butter unit. Not my cup of tea, but I'm not adverse to using it all over the place either.

My take on the thing is that the whole SSL phenomenon suffers from the name brand effect and has people making irrational and/or ill-educated mixing decisions. Honestly, digital stuff went past that benchmark some years a go already.

and now back to Tls 2095. To me, it's a great bus compressor, very reliable 'go to' unit on piano, invisible leveler with difficult dynamics on vocals, and a terrific drum smasher.

ddummer · Post by **ddummer** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:24 pm

and now back to Tls 2095. To me, it's a great bus compressor, very reliable 'go to' unit on piano, invisible leveler with difficult dynamics on vocals, and a terrific drum smasher.

ah,ahh,ahhh and ahhhhh...

(and did you know that if you throw a HUGE float value into the audio buffer in wavelab 4
the damn program cause a bluescreen and terminate window..

yes my 2094-LEIA made
me almost take a dump in my pants when the compiler said internal error after re-booting
but a 'clean' fixed things back to normal... fun to experiment?! sometimes not...)

//Daniel

Kingston · Post by **Kingston** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:54 pm

ddummer wrote:yes my 2094-LEIA made
me almost take a dump in my pants

I don't suppose you're planning on releasing 2092-FETT 2093-LUKE and 2091-JABBA at some point as well?

ddummer · Post by **ddummer** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:10 pm

nahh, probably 3046-BARF, 3045-LONESTAR and 3044-DARKHELMET....

//Daniel

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:12 pm

Can't wait for 3044-DARKHELMET

legendCNCD · Post by **legendCNCD** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:22 pm

Only thing what I'd like more than 2094-LEIA on my host, could be 1176-ITSATRAP

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:29 pm

Put me down for the 3046-BARF. Sounds "fat".

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:12 pm

bduffy wrote:
Kingston wrote:I didn't say that now, did I?

it's just that this particular flavor is rather uninteresting and dull (and also heavily overused). Things have come a long way since that dirt-cheap (not kidding, the parts cost around 50-100 quid) dual VCA compressor was first stuck to those large format mixers.

read: the name brand effect

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=273841
No, you didn't say that, but that's what everyone claims that compressor magically does, and if it's a cheap piece of crap, doesn't that mean people are imagining the glue-together effect?

Actually I think that "glue" effect (which is not bullshit, it is reality) is rather the fact that running your tracks on the SSL 4000/9000 series console in and by itself contributes to this effect. I've heard the 4000 series console and it's famous buss compressor now several times and I've also heard the separate, modern x-logic buss compressor rack unit and IMHO they do not "feel" the same.

Anyways.. what do I know..

Cheers!
bManic

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:19 pm

bmanic wrote:
bduffy wrote:
Kingston wrote:I didn't say that now, did I?

it's just that this particular flavor is rather uninteresting and dull (and also heavily overused). Things have come a long way since that dirt-cheap (not kidding, the parts cost around 50-100 quid) dual VCA compressor was first stuck to those large format mixers.

read: the name brand effect

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=273841
No, you didn't say that, but that's what everyone claims that compressor magically does, and if it's a cheap piece of crap, doesn't that mean people are imagining the glue-together effect?
Actually I think that "glue" effect (which is not bullshit, it is reality) is rather the fact that running your tracks on the SSL 4000/9000 series console in and by itself contributes to this effect. I've heard the 4000 series console and it's famous buss compressor now several times and I've also heard the separate, modern x-logic buss compressor rack unit and IMHO they do not "feel" the same.

Anyways.. what do I know..

Cheers!
bManic

Thanks, B. I've had plenty of people "in the know" propound the virtues of the SSL bus compressor (inlcuding one mastering engineer who said that's the only bus compressor he's willing to hear on a mix), so I figured there's something to it; I just hadn't heard how cheap it was! So I was wondering if it was a placebo scenario, but my own experiments with bus compression suggest it can work well for mix, especially rock/pop stuff.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:04 pm

It could also just be a case of familiarity of the sound. Doesn't mean it's better, just that the sound of an SSL buss compressor makes certain songs sound "right" (aka 'familiar'/'nostalgia').

Cheers!
bManic

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:19 pm

Makes sense.

johnrrrrrr · Post by **johnrrrrrr** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:44 am

bmanic wrote:
bduffy wrote:
Kingston wrote:I didn't say that now, did I?

it's just that this particular flavor is rather uninteresting and dull (and also heavily overused). Things have come a long way since that dirt-cheap (not kidding, the parts cost around 50-100 quid) dual VCA compressor was first stuck to those large format mixers.

read: the name brand effect

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=273841
No, you didn't say that, but that's what everyone claims that compressor magically does, and if it's a cheap piece of crap, doesn't that mean people are imagining the glue-together effect?
Actually I think that "glue" effect (which is not bullshit, it is reality) is rather the fact that running your tracks on the SSL 4000/9000 series console in and by itself contributes to this effect. I've heard the 4000 series console and it's famous buss compressor now several times and I've also heard the separate, modern x-logic buss compressor rack unit and IMHO they do not "feel" the same.

Anyways.. what do I know..

Cheers!
bManic

Your right, they dont feel the same
but

Glue sound is almost always associated with compressors on the bus because it
is
1--an effect that affects all tracks at once
2--it tucks in stray notes
3--the slight pumping gives a feeling of "flow"

all these things make many tracks become essentially 1 stereo track

There are many ways people use the term glue but this is really the heart of it because glue is something that takes 2 or more items and makes them One

When notes pop out our ear focuses on that note and idenities that part to lack cohesion with the rest of the mix. Also by the Bus compressor moving parts up and down it gives this feeling of flowing. When these bunch of tracks flow together is adds to this cohesive feeling. These things are what "attach" all the tracks together so they appear as One sound. That is glue

Most of this can be done with automation as well, but as you point out there is also another element--and that is the "sound" of the unit. When the compressors flavor is imparted on all the of the tracks at once this also serves to add a sonic glue--such as when you put an EQ on the bus or in Mastering--One effect acting on all tracks makes orphans brothers and sisters. Another analogy would be the way a soft lightbulb imparts its tint to all things in a room. If each peice of funiture was lit by a different bulb--that would an example of mix that does not gel together

Also you alluded to the fact that the boards signal path does have a sound itself. As as you drive the channels that imparts a slight color over the whole mix--further glue.

Well, I hope that helps some people who dont get the terminology. Anything that does the things I mentioned glues tracks together. The question is how well it does them and how well the user is skilled at using them

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:41 pm

John, that's an EXCELLENT description and clarification of the term 'glue'!!

Cheers!!
bManic

Zaphod (giancarlo) · Post by **Zaphod (giancarlo)** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:36 pm

bmanic wrote:It could also just be a case of familiarity of the sound. Doesn't mean it's better, just that the sound of an SSL buss compressor makes certain songs sound "right" (aka 'familiar'/'nostalgia').

Cheers!
bManic

this is exactly my point. 8 months ago I posted this thing in gearslutz:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-prod ... 3-a-5.html

my post (zaphod) is in the middle of the page.
Please note:
1) the topic is Waves V Series, and here we are speaking about SSL
2) the man which answers "Really good points " is Paul Frindle, who is a) my personal hero b) the developer of the eq for ssl consoles and sony oxford plugs

TLs-2095-LA Released (updated v1.1)