Analog or digital ?

[HanafiH]

NI Announce hardware version of Kontakt Sax & Brass

[antto]

he-he-he..

[HanafiH]

Better out than in I always say...

It's bollocks all of it.

First the legendary past:
The VCS3(Putney) had all the build quality of a packet of peanuts.
The Minimoog was so expensive the only people actually playing them had rich daddies, arts degrees and ten hour synth solos which is why the Undertones and everybody else at the dawn of punk would vomit on the stage when anybody played one.
The Polymoog was a basket case with one useable preset.
The Pro 5 had a cockamamie keyboard sweeping circuit which didn't work properly and the potentiometers were so cheap and rubbish that a filter sweep was like sliding down the stairs on your arse.
The DX7 was so wildly popular because it was the first electric piano that weighed less than a Sherman tank.
The M1 was huge because it made people who knew nothing about subtractive feel like they did and kept the presets.

Next: Analog or Digital? This is the answer:



You are all so gorged on whim, fantasy and wankware you can't actually make music any more, so what does it matter?

What made legendary synths legendary was legendary players. The rest is total hogwash. Take one synth, any synth, and work. That's what makes a synth great. The work. The music. Any synth of any type will do.

[zerocrossing]

What made legendary synths legendary was legendary players. The rest is total hogwash. Take one synth, any synth, and work. That's what makes a synth great. The work. The music. Any synth of any type will do.

[yellowfever]

What made legendary synths legendary was legendary players. The rest is total hogwash. Take one synth, any synth, and work. That's what makes a synth great. The work. The music. Any synth of any type will do.

EG Rick Wakeman

[emdot_ambient]

The comparison between clips that Jupiter 8 gave us was worthwhile because we (most of us) didn't know which was which - it was a blind A/B (and a clear majority worked out which was the analog).

To really be worthwhile you need to do a double blind, not a single blind test. And you need to have more samples than just one of each...and you need defined test groups plus a control group. Do at least 4 uncompressed samples of at least 4 different analog machines from different eras. Do the same with hardware VA. Do the same with software VA. No compression, EQ or FX, just sounds directly from the gear with pre-described modulation of filters and envelopes, playing high and low, etc. Actually you could come up with MIDI files to use on each of the synths so that you get exactly the same modulation amounts and phrasing.

Name the files with random names, keeping a log of which file name is what synth. And put those files in a folder on a web page. Then, someone who doesn't know which file is what posts them for review with one question: Analog or Digital? for each sample.

You then have 3 groups do the test:

1) Believers in analog's special-ness
2) Believers in VA is just as good or better than analog
3) Control group of people who really don't care one way or the other

Obviously the control group has to at least be familiar with what analog and VA synths are.

Only then can you get a statistically valid study.

Any postulation about the results before this kind of study is done is nothing but pure conjecture.

[WMP]

Hanfih, all those synths that you think sucked have still yet to be emualated with any real sonic authenticity to the original.

I'll take:

Price: Expensive at first but damn all the analogs Ive bought in the last 2 years have doubled in value. VST synths? Are worth not much in re sale value that's if the developer will even let you sell it or charge you for doing so.

Sound: Totally personal preference but I just LOVE the sound of a Pro-1 growling thunder bass with a kick drum first thing in the morning. Vsti's sound like a wet fart in comarison when trying to emulate this sound.

Playability: Controller master keyboards, I've got them edirol PCR's and Novation SL controller...not the same. No individual personality, I still don't feel like I am plying a different instrument that is tangebel when I change synths using this method.

Pose factor: Hey girls look at my nice shiny GUI doesn't it rock! Doesn't quite work... however a nice big chunky modular does look rather awesome (sad I know...but I never could play the guitar).

Did I mention Sound quality? Yep I did.

Forcing you to actually intergrate with the synth by not having presets... forces you to actually carve out your own identity rather than Nexus preset blah blah

Warms up your studio

It's nice to actually own something you can touch.

Having 4 analogs playing live from the sequencer and moving from one synth physicaly to another...getting excited about the sounds you are coming up with....printing that sound and starting another track ....unlimited analog synths...love modern Daw's.

The Geek factor of building your own, being that mad professor with a soldering iron.

I know I know I'm just pulling your plonkers for a reaction...but I really do like the above reasons for having hardware analogs. I suppose I like collecting them and how they look, Mt studio looks like a real used studio (it is a real used studio), rather than just a pc with a screen and some speakers. It sets the scene for me to compose with.

Edit: Can't be arsed to edit typo's.

[hakey]

The comparison between clips that Jupiter 8 gave us was worthwhile because we (most of us) didn't know which was which - it was a blind A/B (and a clear majority worked out which was the analog).

To really be worthwhile you need to do a double blind, not a single blind test. And you need to have more samples than just one of each...and you need defined test groups plus a control group.

Are we testing synthesizers here or an experimental treatment for cancer? (And I think you maybe missed out the bit where we test the chi squared distribution against the null hypothesis.)

[djanthonyw]

The comparison between clips that Jupiter 8 gave us was worthwhile because we (most of us) didn't know which was which - it was a blind A/B (and a clear majority worked out which was the analog).

To really be worthwhile you need to do a double blind, not a single blind test. And you need to have more samples than just one of each...and you need defined test groups plus a control group.

Are we testing synthesizers here or an experimental treatment for cancer? (And I think you maybe missed out the bit where we test the chi squared distribution against the null hypothesis.)

[james0tucson]

Price: Expensive at first but damn all the analogs Ive bought in the last 2 years have doubled in value.

That's another way of saying that something started out expensive and is now twice as expensive. I don't think that is quite the refutation you meant for it to be!

VST synths? Are worth not much in re sale value that's if the developer will even let you sell it or charge you for doing so.

There is no *need* for a resale market, because any scarcity of supply is 100% artificial.

Pose factor: Hey girls look at my nice shiny GUI doesn't it rock! Doesn't quite work... however a nice big chunky modular does look rather awesome (sad I know...but I never could play the guitar).

Any girl who is geeky enough to give a crap about your modular synth is geeky enough to appreciate your VST setup. It's maybe a little different from a guitarist or a drummer, but not as much as the myth makes it out to be.


You can spend your time and money trying to compete in the tight market, and maybe get lucky and get your hands on an analog synth that's usable and low-maintenance, or you cand spend much less money and no time setting up a VSTi system. In between these extremes is digital hardware which is not a poor choice.

For a professional, there is much to be said for gear that can be replaced on the day of a show in pretty much in any town on your tour. This is no small consideration.

[living sounds]

I like analog but I got no interest in maintaining equipment, spending the money or making the space... I am happy with my soft synths... straight digital synth, no effects

http://draigathar.org/sounds/2.5.13.wav

Midrange hurts my ears, bass is muddy, no clear high end.

[Kire]

Synthtweaking by me!

Please watch your speakervolume before listening.

www.kiresounds.se/downloads/synth.mp3

[djanthonyw]

I like analog but I got no interest in maintaining equipment, spending the money or making the space... I am happy with my soft synths... straight digital synth, no effects

http://draigathar.org/sounds/2.5.13.wav

Midrange hurts my ears, bass is muddy, no clear high end.

How about this?

[herodotus]

Hanfih, all those synths that you think sucked have still yet to be emualated with any real sonic authenticity to the original.

You missed the point.

He is saying that it doesn't matter. What matters is the musician.

This message is forever lost on gear aficionados.

Again I ask, why do you people frequent a software forum if you believe hardware is so superior?

Really, I am curious, why?

[thecontrolcentre]

Any girl who is geeky enough to give a crap about your modular synth is geeky enough to appreciate your VST setup.

Girls good tunes. You just need to make 'em shake it

@HanafiH great post ...