Zero Delay Feedback Filter (How to test if your synth has a )- Xils-Lab White Paper -

[hakey]

when a great part of their energy is used to try to destroy what they see as competitors to their favorite toys, I think its both very counterproductive for the people they support, and a global negative attitude wich only brings "noise" in many threads.

Oh, the irony!

[Lotuzia]

Ihmo this thread should've been in the dev corner first for feedback (no pun intended)

Then other devs can suggest possible improvements and modifications to the test, and won't gun it down...basically the same procedure you use in beta testing plugins.

Richard

You might be right indeed.

I cant understand though why changing forum would have made things different, the same people would have possibly posted the same things imo but well ... Talking only for myself I dont change what I post according to the part of KVR where the post is.

We thought that many regular users would be interested in knowing more about all this, as 0df have been massively mentioned in some recent threads. We also think that users -who want it- are mature enough to approach these subjects, as I've seen more obscure ones debated endlessly in the instruments forum. And finaly we also provided what I hope/think is a lot of valuable information/explanations , together with the test. There was not as much information available for people

I think maybe in some years, our effort to makes things more clear for users might be seen in a totally different way, once all the more or less positive passionnate input has no more reasons to exist. Or maybe not. We'll see.

Well not much to add atm.

[Urs]

I think the forum is just about right. You're targeting users, not developers. What's odd is the timing. You should have posted this or something similar when your first product deploying this technology came out.

Every product I know that uses zero delay feedback filters, e.g UAD Moog filter or Andy's The Drop, has been marketed as such. Why didn't you? - I think that could have saved all of us some nerves.

[Ingonator]

I think the forum is just about right. You're targeting users, not developers. What's odd is the timing. You should have posted this or something similar when your first product deploying this technology came out.

Hi Urs,

to be fair i am quite sure it was Diva that started the whole discussion (like i mentioned in my last long post). Then Tone2 followed the discussion or "blurb" with the release of Saurus and i'm quite sure they would not have discussed this without Diva being already released.
Later someone did not believe that the Xils synths have a 0df filter design (which obviously Xils Lab did not find really important before that discussion started recently) and so this thread is the logical consequence, no matter if it really makes sense or not or if the provided test is correct or not.

BTW the release of Diva seemed to have another "side-effect" to the discussions here on KVR. as Diva is supposed to be the "holy grail" of VA synths now (which could be right) the discussions about other synths get mostly very aggressive end end up with "Diva is better and that other synth is crap" which is really unfair and like i already mentioned in another thread slowly starts to annoy me.

As i use and like the 3 Xils synths (which i got before Diva and Saurus) and also both Diva and Saurus (for different reasons) i am feeling a bit uncomfortable in the current discussions and feel a bit like "sitting between the chairs" (not sure if i translated this correctly...). Anyway it would also not feel right if i just ignored those discussions and stay quiet. I hope you understand my point and as far as i know you i'm sure you do (but some others maybe not).


Ingo

[Urs]

to be fair i am quite sure it was Diva that started the whole discussion (like i mentioned in my last long post). Then Tone2 followed the discussion or "blurb" with the release of Saurus and i'm quite sure they would not have discussed this without Diva being already released.
Later someone did not believe that the Xils synths have a 0df filter design (which obviously Xils Lab did not find really important before that discussion started recently) and so this thread is the logical consequence, no matter if it really makes sense or not or if the provided test is correct or not.

Both XILS personnel and Tone2 have denied any relationship between their blurps and Diva, so my argumentation has nothing to do with Diva either.

BTW the release of Diva seemed to have another "side-effect" to the discussions here on KVR. as Diva is supposed to be the "holy grail" of VA synths now (which could be right) the discussions about other synths get mostly very aggressive end end up with "Diva is better and that other synth is crap" which is really unfair and like i already mentioned in another thread slowly starts to annoy me.

I'm quite sure this is just a matter of perspective, but even if it was true, what do you (or anyone) suggest has to happen? (please send email to the well known address, this doesn't belong into this thread)

[mcnoone]

this thread slowly starts to annoy me.

Me too.

[Ingonator]

BTW the release of Diva seemed to have another "side-effect" to the discussions here on KVR. as Diva is supposed to be the "holy grail" of VA synths now (which could be right) the discussions about other synths get mostly very aggressive end end up with "Diva is better and that other synth is crap" which is really unfair and like i already mentioned in another thread slowly starts to annoy me.

I'm quite sure this is just a matter of perspective, but even if it was true, what do you (or anyone) suggest has to happen? (please send email to the well known address, this doesn't belong into this thread)

Hi Urs,

i am not really sure what either you or i could do about that but i really hope that the situation here at KVR will get a bit more friendly than it is currently and that people accept that there are other good synths besides Diva and other good developers besides U-He...


Ingo

[Ingonator]

this thread slowly starts to annoy me.

Me too.

Do you find it funny that you changed my post by adding another word at the beginning and quoted it like it was from me?

For those who didn't recognize here is my original post:

BTW the release of Diva seemed to have another "side-effect" to the discussions here on KVR. as Diva is supposed to be the "holy grail" of VA synths now (which could be right) the discussions about other synths get mostly very aggressive end end up with "Diva is better and that other synth is crap" which is really unfair and like i already mentioned in another thread slowly starts to annoy me.

Ingo

[vurt]

BTW the release of Diva seemed to have another "side-effect" to the discussions here on KVR. as Diva is supposed to be the "holy grail" of VA synths now (which could be right) the discussions about other synths get mostly very aggressive end end up with "Diva is better and that other synth is crap" which is really unfair and like i already mentioned in another thread slowly starts to annoy me.
Ingo

why let it annoy you? theyre just opinions, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and you are entitled, to agree, disagree or even ignore.
its not like someone is disrespecting your mother or anything, its just subjective discussion and opinions

[Urs]

i am not really sure what either you or i could do about that but i really hope that the situation here at KVR will get a bit more friendly than it is currently and that people accept that there are other good synths besides Diva and other good developers besides U-He...

You might not be aware of this, but your choice of wording is very unfortunate. Hence please send email...

[trimph1]

I actually like to hear what other developers say about their own instruments and such, and how each develop their instruments.

What I don't get is all the penis measuring commentary that comes into play beyond a certain page...is it possible to discuss the merits of the test rather than penis measuring please?

[Richard_Synapse]

You might be right indeed.

I cant understand though why changing forum would have made things different, the same people would have possibly posted the same things imo but well ... Talking only for myself I dont change what I post according to the part of KVR where the post is.

What I meant is to gather feedback first, incorporate that (as far as possible) and then post the paper - a standard practice for academic papers. Ihmo there's nothing wrong with the thread or the idea behind it (very interesting!) just the premature release- like releasing a nice plugin, but with too many bugs in it.

The first thing I'd change in the initial post is to explain exactly what filter topology and which type of sounds the test applies to, as it makes no sense as a generic test (numerous reasons were given in this thread).

Richard

[Ingonator]

i am not really sure what either you or i could do about that but i really hope that the situation here at KVR will get a bit more friendly than it is currently and that people accept that there are other good synths besides Diva and other good developers besides U-He...

You might not be aware of this, but your choice of wording is very unfortunate. Hence please send email...

Hi Urs,

i know that the choice of my words was not totally "diplomatic" (and i am sorry if this could be misunderstood) but it seems to describe one reason for the derailment of some discussions going on here on KVR recently and i am not blaming you for this personally.
The point is that anytime when things start to calm down a bit almost any new thread about synths from "competing companies" (i start to hate that expression too...) like e.g. Tone2 or Xils Lab seems to end in a total disaster (there are also exceptions but let's see when those threads will change) which am sure was not the intention of either you, Markus or Xavier as developers nor the original posters of those threads, at least i believe that in most of the cases.


Ingo

[mcnoone]

this thread slowly starts to annoy me.

Me too.

Do you find it funny that you changed my post by adding another word at the beginning and quoted it like it was from me?

Thanks for the 3 minute delayed feedback.
You passed the test.

[Ingonator]

BTW the release of Diva seemed to have another "side-effect" to the discussions here on KVR. as Diva is supposed to be the "holy grail" of VA synths now (which could be right) the discussions about other synths get mostly very aggressive end end up with "Diva is better and that other synth is crap" which is really unfair and like i already mentioned in another thread slowly starts to annoy me.
Ingo

why let it annoy you? theyre just opinions, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and you are entitled, to agree, disagree or even ignore.
its not like someone is disrespecting your mother or anything, its just subjective discussion and opinions

Because besides having participated in the public beta and factory sound design for Diva i am also involved with both Xils Labs (especially Synthix, parts of the last expansion soundbank are from me) and Tone 2 (especially Saurus, doing sound design for it currently and joined the Tone2 beta team, also for ElectraX). And no, i am not directly employed at any of those companies, i got all of those synths with a normal purchase.
I have also beta tested the LeMasque Delay from Xils and will maybe participate in other tests too.
Maybe based on all that you could understand that i do not just ignore those discussions. BTW i am usually quite honest and i have also written a few critical words about the test presented at the OP of this thread.


Ingo