Are Todays Daw's Making People Lazy Producers ?

[vurt]

Baby boomers...ugh.

i have never implanted explosives in a baby.

[donkey tugger]

Baby boomers...ugh.

i have never implanted explosives in a baby.

I once blew up a shed. Does that count?

[deep'n'dark]

10 years ago, when I used Reason & Record, I had 3 synths in Reason + basic stock effects. This limitation was making me to push harder than now for sure. Like stated in this thread before, we have a lot bigger roster of tools. I don't blame my roster of tools, I rather blame my own lazyness of using Reason 10.2. to the fullest potential. Anyways, I think I'm also partly a bit lost atm because this planet is saturated with all kind of un-needed s*it that has partly affected my spirit to work with my music. That said, I should update my current psychological system to a new one and start making music like in the ol' good days. We should be thankful of our tools we have and start working harder.

[EnochLight]

So, let me introduce you to something that, in discourse, got known somewhere along the line as a straw man argument. You've fabricated a statement and a situation that's easy to beat up on and score the round with. It looks stupid, doesn't it. Only no one has said that. I have read about every post since you started this and it isn't here until your straw man said it. I've seen people say the opposite here, there is more bad and more good out of having the availability afforded by the modern DAW.
I believe the opposite of what you would have the group believe about my statements. Snob that I am.

Not really. There is no strawman argument. I made a statement ("rock music is dead"), and then presented evidence to back up the claim (guitar sales are down; DAW/plugins/hardware is up; the top 10 hits of the past decade have mostly been hip hop and/or electronic based). I then modified the statement since it seems many were bothered (to “the vast majority of what people listen to today is NOT rock music - as evidenced by the top 10 songs for the past decade)”. The historical charts are available for your perusal on the Internet.

You don't have to agree with it - that's fine. My statement isn't meant as a personal affront to anyone. It was a simple footnote in my original post in response to Scotty's thread, BTW. That people zero'd in on it just means it struck a nerve.

So please, don't use an ad hominem argument on me. That's really not necessary. I did say originally that a lot of old timer's feathers would get ruffled. I neglected to mention that I am, indeed, of the age group that could be considered one of those old timers.

I actually think there is music which isn't good. So I don't enjoy all music. I can't even imagine that. Do you like all foods? Do you like every TV program or motion picture there is? Are you kidding?

Would it make everyone feel better if I said “the vast majority of what people listen to today is NOT rock music (as evidenced by the top 10 songs for the past decade)”?

Do you think people feel bad because of statements you made? Other than being slightly irritated by the impudence of it all, I mean.

Perhaps? I mean, if your feelings weren't hurt - then cool! But I'm really trying to understand why people can't disagree with others without turning things into something that it clearly is not, though.

I'm not 'everyone' in the group, but _I_ couldn't remotely begin to care what the vast majority of people do. Because this is the lowest common denominator, and because I'm more interested in music qua music than most people; and because I tend to individuate like that. I didn't care about it when I was a little kid.

Well, you cared enough to construct a quoted response to me, so... there's that.

Look, I said from the beginning the statement would ruffle some feathers. It's cool. I look forward to a measured/reasonable debate. I'm completely open to opposing arguments. Fire away! Or not..

While it's true that democratisaton of music production, ie. that you don't need musical education, little-to-no hardware, no studio time with all the people that came with it, etc.; does indeed result in a much lower ratio of good vs. bad music, but if you have the courage and time to sift through all this shite you'll find real pearls and often they come from people who aren't real musicians, just that the lower access allowed them to realise their visions they otherwise wouldn't be able to. DAWs also spawned whole genres of complex, intricate music that wouldn't be possible in the old days, like the whole glitch- and bass- genres. Whether one likes that music or not is a different matter altogether, but it IS a valid form of musical expression where the focus shifts from tonal intervals (melodies) to textures, patterns and rhythm (although listen to eg. Jazzmental EP by Mindex and tell me it's not awesome MUSIC too). One important - and often overlooked - factor is that a lot of great music, new genres, new mixing techniques, etc. are created by mistake of someone who doesn't know what they're doing, or - in other words - don't follow the established rules that they're not familiar with: they'll mix things that "shouldn't" be mixed, use an instrument or device "wrong", paint a chord progression that's "not by the books"... Again, lots of it will be shit, but some of it will be brilliant so isn't it worth having the means and environment that make this possible?

So no, I don't think DAWs make people lazy - it's a tool and just like a piano or guitar it's up to person using it to make the most of it. Also, at any point in history there was good & bad music and while today perhaps the ratio is different, it's also much easier to find good music and it costs less. Imagine few centuries ago you'd have to travel half the country to listen to a concert that sucked? Or just few decades back importing a vinyl record from accross the globe only to find out it's completely not your taste?

^^ Totally!

[Bombadil]

Yorkshire accent....

Luxury....

Ok. I will attest to the fact that my Portastudio 424 made me a lazier producer/musician. Until that arrived in 1992, my best friend and I had been ping-ponging between 2 cassette decks since we were 16 or so. It reached its apex of sound quality with 2 DBX cassette decks, a cheap 6 channel Radio Shack mixer, a couple of Radio Shack dynamic mics, guitars, amp, old upright piano. We had to play the tracks right through from beginning to end, often combining tasks like, shock horror, singing and playing. As soon as we moved to the Portapotty, and realized we could cut down on time by putting the solo in by itself, and then moving the tape to the 2nd solo, and singing separately, we did so. It had a deleterious effect on our ability to play things through, though it was worse for my friend, whose motor skills were deteriorating due to MD.
When we did make a slight upgrade to our equipment, we had more options, but not a lot. First upgrade was one of those little Casio mini keyboards. Not a lot of usable sounds.
Anyways... because we had to commit early and in real-time to what we were going to play, and how it was to be mixed with everything else, we got pretty tight at that aspect, a skill that still serves me well. However, the choices in sounds....I now have 10's of thousands of them, that slows me down. I have been thinking about my recording workflow, and have decided to try to be more like I used to: fast and hard choices.

[jancivil]

When I started with the Today's DAW whole thing, I still figured to record a whole take. That's what I did in a studio, that's what I did at home with a Teac 4 track. Well, at home I probably <punched in> on occasion.
This notion of things - I had not played keyboards at all for 6 or 8 yrs - slowed me down.

I construct tracks out of editing now, or for all of 2017 used the pencil tool in Cubase or Nuendo. I didn't have a home to work in, I worked in the public library or a cafe. (A keybd controller was a bit much.)

I have no conception of the laziness inherent in choices like that. I have significant nerve damage including the ulna nerve in my left arm so I have to strategize.

I never bothered with takes, I was a first take sort of musician. Sometimes there would be a second take because the feel isn't there. Beyond that, you're f**king up. I was a classical soloist (performing seal) for ~5 yrs, you simply do the thing.

I can't {4 Yorkshiremen} top bouncing between two cassette players but that's my first overdubbing as well. 1970, I was 14. t'was a luxury to have two cassette players. All I had was my drum kit and my tiny voice.


On to the present, I'm not one that is buffaloed by having 'too many choices'; too many sounds available, there's no such thing. it's a palette. I'm an orchestrator, I want the palette according to my imagination for to achieve the idea. I've had to compromise. I can do compromise but it's not ideal. I work harder than I've ever worked, and this is because I have the means to do more.

I would say to whomever believes a situation exists for someone else to worry about yourself and your trip.

[BMoore]

Seems like some «producers» have so much time on their hands, that they can write long, tedious, wannabe-academic discussions with no new information, on topics that have been beaten to death 2.8 billion times.

Maybe it’s their efficient DAW workflow.

[THE INTRANCER]

My first ever live musical recording was with a Casio SK1 sampling keyboard in 1986, to my brothers Hitachi Hi-fi tape deck, connected to a high powered amplifier, a multi set of large 6" diameter speakers and cabinets of disco lights linked to a sound chaser in our bedroom which he had constructed himself. It was literally the flashiest house in town..to the bemusement of walkers by ...

Little did I know that just playing and recording to a Hi-fi tape deck in the mid 1980's would lead me to playing a professional semi-weighted Korg 01/WFD keyboard in a band 14 years later, within a palace in front of 200+ people, TV & Press Cameras...TV celebrities and HRH Prince Charles... No music software were involved in any of this, we did this live, and with very little in preparation. There was lots of nerves and adrenaline that day...but the opportunity would never had arisen if I had never had the dedication to learn and master the playing of an instrument as a regular hobby. Music software didn't come into it.

[donkey tugger]

HRH Prince Charles..

What did old Big Ears think of it?

[EnochLight]

My first ever live musical recording was with a Casio SK1 sampling keyboard in 1986

Obligatory:

[donkey tugger]

A mate had one. It had just enough sample memory to get in, 'He shits peas for a living'. Marvellous.

[THE INTRANCER]

HRH Prince Charles..

What did old Big Ears think of it?

We performed three tracks from well known artists, Natilie Umbrulia's 'Torn', Eurythmics 'Sweet Dreams' and Alanis Morrissette 'One Hand In My Pocket', of which I played the in the first and last of those, whilst one of our mentors for the event did 'Sweet Dreams'. I didn't get the chance to have a conversation with him till everyone was down on the main floor area drinking real champaign including myself, but when he did make his speech... he did commend us for having the 'balls' my term to perform in front of a large formal audience, which to be fair, was quite intimidating. When we finished the last performance, the audience erupted in applause, and our band was buzzing because it went perfectly with no mistakes... so I'd imagine that he had enjoyed it too... He was the one asking the questions though, like where we all came from, how we got together ect.. I have two photos, with myself, the band and HRH Prince Charles standing together...with our glasses in our hands. The event took place at Hollyrood Palace In Edinburgh on the 26th Of May 2000. I found him to be very down to earth and easy to talk to.

[vurt]

I found him to be very down to earth and easy to talk to.

im guessing he didn't show his reptilian face in any pics?

[AnX]

I found him to be very down to earth and easy to talk to.

im guessing he didn't show his reptilian face in any pics?

i dont think camilla was there

[vurt]