GForce OB-1

[felis]

OB-1 is so much better than I was expecting.
I mean, I knew it would be good, but I've most of the GForce stuff and thought this might be 'just more of the same'.
Can't put my finger on exactly why, but it's just so easy to get sucked into it and get good sounds from it.
One thing I did notice is that the cross mod is so much more usable than on the OBX, which just has an on/off switch. On the OB-1 you can dial in an amount and then mod it with the xlfo or xadsr.
Was just playing around with it, and found it hard to stop.
That doesn't happen too often nowadays.

[Scotty]

Agree completely. It takes those updates and polyphony really well. I have the Creamware DSP version and it really speaks in raw tones in the best way possible. This gets there with enhancements. Great work.

OB-1 is so much better than I was expecting.
I mean, I knew it would be good, but I've most of the GForce stuff and thought this might be 'just more of the same'.
Can't put my finger on exactly why, but it's just so easy to get sucked into it and get good sounds from it.
One thing I did notice is that the cross mod is so much more usable than on the OBX, which just has an on/off switch. On the OB-1 you can dial in an amount and then mod it with the xlfo or xadsr.
Was just playing around with it, and found it hard to stop.
That doesn't happen too often nowadays.

[IvyBirds]

TouchOSC is a reasonable solution for creating custom controller setups.

I agree I have an old iPad exactly for that

[dlandis]

OB-1 is so much better than I was expecting.
I mean, I knew it would be good, but I've most of the GForce stuff and thought this might be 'just more of the same'.
Can't put my finger on exactly why, but it's just so easy to get sucked into it and get good sounds from it.
One thing I did notice is that the cross mod is so much more usable than on the OBX, which just has an on/off switch. On the OB-1 you can dial in an amount and then mod it with the xlfo or xadsr.
Was just playing around with it, and found it hard to stop.
That doesn't happen too often nowadays.

I think it's got a bit more of the growl and bite that Oberheim is known for. Whether or not it's exactly "on the money" for an emulation of the OB-1, I'm not qualified to say as I only owned a Matrix 6R and a couple of the Matrix 1000 units (which was essentially the Matrix 6 in a box with great reduced front panel controls and better stability,) but it sounds really great. I also especially love their Oddity 3, Axxess, impOSCar 3, and VSM IV. GForce has always done a great job.

[stoopicus]

Whether or not it's exactly "on the money" for an emulation of the OB-1

I may be unusual for KVR but I literally never care about this. I buy synths for their controls and what they sound like, not absolute fidelity to the original, and look at the synth they are modeling as a guideline/vocabulary, more than something I need to dig out a scope for to measure absolute accuracy to a hardware model.

I bought Repro because I wanted a Pro-One. I don't care if it is exact or just close because it sounds truly great.

This is the reason I will probably get OB-1 in the future. It sounds really good to me. I really like its blend of nasty and nice.

[BONES]

This is the thing though - you're talking about your own workflow needs, because of how you work. Not everyone is you, though, or have the same needs.

I don't expect they would but to suggest that these teeny-weeny use cases make sense of the way you work doesn't hold water. You are still just saying "I prefer working like this", you are not making a logical case for it. Of course we are all free to work however we like, just see your choices for what they are. If you stick with a mouse, you will get more done in any given period of time and you will be able to work more precisely. Those are simple facts.

You assume everyone works like you do

If that were true, I wouldn't need to be constantly correcting the rest of you, would I?

Filter sweeps are done with two hands turning the filter cutoff and resonance, positive and negative, and that's just one basic trick in the bag.

Filter sweeps are done with cutoff because the resonant peak will follow the cutoff frequency, no need to modulate it. And anyone who knows how to play a synth will use the Mod Wheel for shit like that.

Two hands on knobs or faders, is not only a thing, but critical for sound design and performance.

I doubt that 1% of bands I've seen on stage actually turn knobs or sliders during a performance. That's a dumb-arse dance music move from people who never learned how to play a synthesiser.

[BONES]

Take the GForce OB-1 the topic of this thread. It has two VCOs just like a ton of other synths. On the GUI itself you adjust various things with virtual knobs. There is a frequency knob, a fine tune Frequency knob, a knob to select the waveform, and two modulation knobs one for frequency modulation and the other for wave modulation, moving further along we get a mixer section and a noise generator level control and a knob to go between white and pink. We have two standard ADSR envelope generators, a filter section with a frequency knob, a fine tune knob, resonance, and two modulation knobs

If you are at all familiar with Analog Style synths at all you will find many of those controls are pretty much universal to every Analog synth, you will also find many deeper plugins while they might have hundreds of parameters to edit still have a lot of these basic controls

Create a template of the more universal controls you use frequently and just use that across all your plugins, for more unique things don't map them use a mouse, unless of course you use something a lot then go ahead and map it if you find it useful

Wow! The level of cluelessness in this post reaches new heights. OB-1, simple though it may be, has two fairly unique (or unusual, at least) features that you just glossed over like they were irrelevant. How many synths have continuously variable oscillator shapes or pink/white noise mix? Those are features you will use a lot in a synth like OB-1, simply because of their uniqueness and what that offers.

Now, you'll come back with how you map a knob to a list selector for choosing waveforms, so this works the same, but that goes against the suggestion that using knobs and sliders offers a superior level of connectedness with the process. Turning a knob to select from a list is kind of the opposite of that more connected feeling, isn't it?

For me this is one of the main strengths of Bitwig; map plugins once and for all, choose your own parameter names and order them in pages of 8 until you mapped them all.

I'm pretty sure Studio One has something similar. It's nothing I'd ever use but it's popped up once or twice when I've been trying to get a controller to control two tracks at once. It may not be universal, though, but it's a window that allows you to map parameters to controls in whatever way you want, separate to what the plugin does.

[machinesworking]

Mackie tried to solve this almost two decades ago with the C4, but the lack of order that soft instrument developers publish plugin automation in made it not that popular, which is too bad. The other just glaring thing, had the C4 allowed you to rearrange the order of the plugin parameters and save that for that plugin, it would IMO be universally popular, but instead of investing in it, they let it die. NI have Komplete Kontrol which adds a layer with the plugin host, and it kind of gets in the way of deeper tweaking..

Novation tried it with automap. Nektar has it's own system.
But it's something the DAW should solve in my opinion, not the controller.

Some pages back i argued that few DAWS have solved this.
For me this is one of the main strengths of Bitwig; map plugins once and for all, choose your own parameter names and order them in pages of 8 until you mapped them all.

Combine it with a controller that has a display which shows the parameter name in 4 characters or more and a bank button for switching the mapped pages and you are good to go. Every time you load a plugin it's mappings get loaded too, the focus of the controller determines which plugin gets controlled. So no problem controlling multiple instances.
Define different mappings per preset if you want. Those will be stored with the preset.

Plain midi mapping is possible too if you need that.
It's not perfect, but close to hardware and very usable.
A little work and you have a custom version of Komplete

Not all manufacturers expose all parameters though and it can sometimes be a bit of search to find parameters (some use totally unrelated internal naming) but i can do it pretty fast.
Usually i do that first thing after buying our demoing, have about 120 plugins done.
The files can be shared and exchanged with other users, so no need to start from zero.

#ad ends

Mostly I'm just fine with my setup as it is. I'm on a Mac and I really do not get why Windows users aren't all over the touch interfaces? As I mentioned my biggest problem with the mouse for the sound design portion of songwriting is having to set up a MIDI loop to do it VS just hammering away at a keyboard as you turn knobs, which is totally possible with a touch screen. MIDI learn is fine for performance controls etc.

I wasn't sold on Automap, or Komplete Kontrol. I do like the way Live and Bitwig assign parameters to plugins globally, but in practice it's just easier for me to choose what parameter I want automated in the moment. I do find it super useful for 8-16 parameter FX plugins, that's where the automapping shines for sure.

[IvyBirds]

Wow! The level of cluelessness in this post reaches new heights

You must be looking in the mirror because your trolling has reached a new low

OB-1, simple though it may be, has two fairly unique (or unusual, at least) features that you just glossed over like they were irrelevant. How many synths have continuously variable oscillator shapes or pink/white noise mix? Those are features you will use a lot in a synth like OB-1, simply because of their uniqueness and what that offers

Only I didn't gloss over them, I actually mentioned them and have them assigned to knobs. That's the advantage of my system, things like that fit quite well into my system and I can adjust them with knobs or a mouse

OB-1 also has a row of special controls across the top of the GUI I have all of those programmed as well, I can adjust multiples of them at the same time something you can't

But seriously, your trolling is getting more and more desperate, I am actually embarrassed for you. You are so desperate to discredit me you end up looking foolish

But I get it you are a preset surfer who admits to spending 98-99% of your time not doing sound design, nothing wrong with that, but a set up designed from the ground up for sound design is just beyond your comprehension and needs, maybe consider stop trolling and just sit this one out to avoid further embarrassment for yourself

[mypo]

As expected.... OB-1 is here!
https://www.gforcesoftware.com/products/ob-1/
After a quick demo looking like an instabuy for me.

Awesome!

[BONES]

People lost interest in this pretty quickly. I'm only now starting to explore it's possibilities. I find myself using it more and more, in contrast to Axxess, which revealed most of what it had to offer in the first few days of use. I like Axxess, it has a great sound, but it's a lot more limited than OB-1. I suppose that's the difference between a one and a two osc synth.

[stoopicus]

People lost interest in this pretty quickly.

Oh I am definitely going to buy it, it's on my Black Friday list.

[BONES]

I really do not get why Windows users aren't all over the touch interfaces?

Mostly because the people who make DAWs haven't lifted a finger to facilitate it. Try using Studio One with my 13" touchscreen - it's way more hassle than it's worth. In fact, in general I don't think the process lends itself to a touch interface. You need far too much on screen to make it work usably with touch.

As I mentioned my biggest problem with the mouse for the sound design portion of songwriting is having to set up a MIDI loop to do it VS just hammering away at a keyboard as you turn knobs, which is totally possible with a touch screen.

????? How does a mouse not just work? That's what's so good about it - it does just work and it's so easy. You move your cursor over a control and use the scroll wheel to change the value. Of course, you need to invest in a good mouse, gaming mice lend themselves best to this kind of work. Things like the Magic Mouse and Microsoft's Arc Touch Mouse are terrible for it, although I do use the latter on stage.

After this discussion, for the first time in my life, I assigned a couple of knobs to parameters, to help me recreate a Billy Currie solo, and I found the experience awful. For a start, each new session resets the value in the controller to zero, so even though my MPK has endless encoders, as soon as I touch them the parameter value goes to zero. Once you've done it once, it seems OK for the rest of the session but it's the sort of thig I can imagine tripping me up on stage all the time.
Then there was the fact of turning a knob with my hand feeling like the most inappropriate way to change the portamento time. I found the experience quite unsatisfying. To be fair, I think I'd like sliders a lot more, so I might try out my Donner controller and see how that feels. In the end I just recorded the automation with my mouse, which worked much better.

[machinesworking]

I really do not get why Windows users aren't all over the touch interfaces?

Mostly because the people who make DAWs haven't lifted a finger to facilitate it. Try using Studio One with my 13" touchscreen - it's way more hassle than it's worth. In fact, in general I don't think the process lends itself to a touch interface. You need far too much on screen to make it work usably with touch."

13" is pretty small for sure, but I'm talking mostly about soft synths, and being able manipulate the interface knobs etc. Most modern coded soft synths allow near full screen size on a 13". Plus in my case it's a 27" raven plenty of room. I suppose I can see the awkward trajectory there though, most people using laptops are not also buying a 27" touch screen.

As I mentioned my biggest problem with the mouse for the sound design portion of songwriting is having to set up a MIDI loop to do it VS just hammering away at a keyboard as you turn knobs, which is totally possible with a touch screen.

????? How does a mouse not just work? That's what's so good about it - it does just work and it's so easy. You move your cursor over a control and use the scroll wheel to change the value. Of course, you need to invest in a good mouse, gaming mice lend themselves best to this kind of work. Things like the Magic Mouse and Microsoft's Arc Touch Mouse are terrible for it, although I do use the latter on stage.

I have a Logitech mouse one of the 7 button varieties. I'm a "power user" i.e. I have it turned up to 10 pretty much on everything. To work like how you do I would have to have the mouse about 4x slower across the screen. In other words my mouse is set to a sensitivity that makes touching the scroll wheel a gamble in it possibly moving off target.

Plus the way a touch screen works VS a scroll wheel is just more appealing to me, you touch the parameter on the soft synth and it's activating the click function until you release your finger, so just like without a scroll wheel your finger can roam up/down left/right on the GUI to move the knob or slider. In my setup the computer, monitor and mouse are front facing with the NI SL keyboard to the right, so there's not any glancing back to look at where things are etc.

I for years used a scroll wheel for moving parameters on a soft synth like you mention here, it's just better with a touch screen in my experience. You likely have to set up your touch parameters in Windows and the DAW has to have given some thought to touch screens of course YRMV applies.

After this discussion, for the first time in my life, I assigned a couple of knobs to parameters, to help me recreate a Billy Currie solo, and I found the experience awful. For a start, each new session resets the value in the controller to zero, so even though my MPK has endless encoders, as soon as I touch them the parameter value goes to zero. Once you've done it once, it seems OK for the rest of the session but it's the sort of thig I can imagine tripping me up on stage all the time.
Then there was the fact of turning a knob with my hand feeling like the most inappropriate way to change the portamento time. I found the experience quite unsatisfying. To be fair, I think I'd like sliders a lot more, so I might try out my Donner controller and see how that feels. In the end I just recorded the automation with my mouse, which worked much better.

I think for endless encoders the best bet is always if your DAW supports your controller as a control surface, otherwise you're using MIDI cc's and it can jump to the setting etc like you're experiencing there. Especially if your DAWs implementation doesn't support soft takeover. It's one advantage of Live and Bitwigs control surface/plugin support that you can set and forget the main parameters you might use with knobs and sliders. Other DAWs do that as well, but it doesn't read like Studio One does, DP only does it with a list of control surfaces from Novation, NI and Akai. I've got the KK S88 mkII here and the endless encoders are fantastic for even ADSR control inside the KK Software anyway.

Off topic sort of, but I really hoped MIDI 2.0 sorted this out, control surface support in a DAW always beats MIDI, larger resolution, working soft takeover, can be implemented at the plugin level in Live, Logic, Bitwig and others etc. but it's not represented well in most DAWs and isn't a consistent protocol. From what I've read of MIDI 2.0 it doesn't look like that's necessarily a core element?

Oh and 100% Billy Currie doesn't get half the recognition he deserves. Systems of Romance and The Pleasure Principal are foundational works to me.

[stoopicus]

I have a Logitech mouse one of the 7 button varieties. I'm a "power user" i.e. I have it turned up to 10 pretty much on everything. To work like how you do I would have to have the mouse about 4x slower across the screen. In other words my mouse is set to a sensitivity that makes touching the scroll wheel a gamble in it possibly moving off target.

Not sure what the button count means here (mine has 19 before I press the modifier button that adds a shift-mode to give another 19). But I also have the sensitivity cranked up and it is no problem for synth knob tweaking with it.