*sold*

[speccyteccy]

Click on another instrument tab and the previous one goes away (since you can only work on one at a time anyway unless you have Shiva's arms).

You can have multiple instrument GUI's open - just "top-right x" out of the channel setting's window whilst the GUI's showing. When you select another instrument from the step sequencer, the original one now remains.

And at least you can see an instrument's GUI in FL whilst editing its piano roll unlike some other hosts!

[grymmjack]

Let's see it bones.

Them. I've made 6 over the years but I only keep 3 of them up to date, its way too much work for things I no longer use. If the next update requires too much work I will probably drop STEALTH as I no longer use it either. I use LIGHT on my laptop [shithouse screen with really bad brightness/contrast] and NOVA-II on my workstation.

Looks cool. You have successfully skinned pretty much all that you use now (and created that which cannot be skinned)? I can imagine a huge productivity boost if things are just how you like them.

[grymmjack]

http://www.novakill.com/skinz.htm

Those don't show anything in terms of screen efficiency.

I think that if you design something to be "Just so" how you like it, you are more inclined to feel at home and more comfortable, and thus more productive. I dunno about the efficiency part, but there are quite a bit of controls exposed in those shots.

[Sascha Franck]

Ok, BONES, Shane, Krim et all, as BONES asked, here's some screenshots and explanations of the Logic mixer.
Please note: I don't want to show you the beauty of the mixer (because everybody may have a different opinion on that) and I also don't want to show off as a Logic fanboy (which I certainly am, but that's beyond the point).
The sole purpose is to describe certain functionalities that I'd really love to see being implemented in other hosts as well.

Also, some things can't be told by screenshots, but I'll explain.

Ok, first thing I really love is that you can just exchange the used VSTi straight inside the mixer. No need for any further routings or so, let alone a stupid, completely useless VSTi rack like in Cubarse. It's all straight there on the mixer channel.

The next great thing is that the mixer is "autoselecting" channels when you select a track.
You can see this here:



What you can't see is another neat feature if screen estate is limited: When you doubleclick on the send button, it'll automatically take you to the bus it's sending to.
What you can't see either is that plugin windows are "link-able". Meaning that when you open a plugin, the previously opened one will automatically close.
Of course, both the mixer and plugin linking is optional (fwiw, the same goes for *any* editor, you can have them follow your selection or make them "permanent", plus you can of course open, say, multiple piano rolls at once, which is good for comparing parts):



In addition, as you may have seen from the window boundaries allready, the mixer is no "normal" window, but a "float" one (aka "allways on top). As a result of that, you can drag it anywhere - great for dual monitor setups, especially when resizing your main program window would be uncomfortable (because you may work with differently sized monitors).
You can also resize the window to your likings
Btw, again the same is true for editors and the likes. You can make any window "floating". Really really neat.

As a result of the link and float functions, the mixer can be configured as a single channel strip, which is particularly great if screen estate is limited:



And finally, the mixer is freely configurable. I can just drag the strips around as much as I like, completely independent from my arrangements track listing (mind you, there's a second mixer in Logic as well, the socalled "Track Mixer", which will allways represent the arrange track order - so there's one for everybody).
Might look like this:



A last thing to mention would be multiout plugins. The multiouts aren't added automatically, cluttering up your mixer, but you have to define them yourself. There's socalled "aux objects" and you define their input. Takes a tad longer than, say, Cubase's approach of auto-adding, but I find it way more effective, as a) you can of course place them wherever you want as well and b) you don't have to hide the not wanted channels.
You can see one of those aux channels in the last screenshot (the "Battery Snare" channel).

Oh, before I forget: I can easily re-order the plugin chain as well (via drag and drop), and my channels won't lose their settings when replacing the instrument (such as in Cubarse).
The latest versions of Logic have all those functionalities improved again, you can now drag and drop effects straight in the mixer, the channelstrip is integrated by default (of course you can switch it off) and you don't even need to doubleclick on an instrument insert anymore to get to the GUI, it'll open automatically once you select a track (of course that's optional as well).

Now, as said, I don't want to say everything has to be (or look) like in Logic, but IMO there's quite some functionalities that other hosts could probably learn from, namely linked windows, be it mixers, editors or plugin GUIs. The option to make each and everything "float" is another great bonus.

Sorry for the partially oversized screenshots, but I wanted things to be shown in real life size.

Disclaimer: This post was made without any host wars intended.

[headquest]

It is undeniably a thing of great beauty Sasha.

(but I'm not buying a mac )

[spaceman]

It is undeniably a thing of great beauty Sasha.

(but I'm not buying a mac )

he's using the windows version

[bluedad]

let alone a stupid, completely useless VSTi rack like in Cubarse.

Disclaimer: This post was made without any host wars intended.

your dislike for Cubase clearly seeps through, Sascha.
ah well, we know you can't help it.
fanboy

[headquest]

It is undeniably a thing of great beauty Sasha.

(but I'm not buying a mac )

he's using the windows version

I thought he might be. But surely that's (1) no longer available and (2) getting a bit long in the tooth now isn't it? (cool mixer though!)

[Shane Sanders]

Click on another instrument tab and the previous one goes away (since you can only work on one at a time anyway unless you have Shiva's arms).

You can have multiple instrument GUI's open - just "top-right x" out of the channel setting's window whilst the GUI's showing. When you select another instrument from the step sequencer, the original one now remains.

And at least you can see an instrument's GUI in FL whilst editing its piano roll unlike some other hosts!

I mean that one can only pay attention to one at a time, not that you can't have more than one visible.

[spaceman]

It is undeniably a thing of great beauty Sasha.

(but I'm not buying a mac )

he's using the windows version

I thought he might be. But surely that's (1) no longer available and (2) getting a bit long in the tooth now isn't it? (cool mixer though!)

it still works fine and you can still get them 2nd hand

oh and.. you should see the mixer in v7

[Sascha Franck]

your dislike for Cubase clearly seeps through, Sascha.

Well, that was an objective statement

On a serious note: I don't know a single person not having various problems with the Cubase mixer, be it the non-existance of an option to re-order plugins, the inability to open stereo plugins on a mono track (I mean, how f***ed up is that?) or the completely failed approach of having it automatically follow your track selection.
Yes, I dislike Cubase, but, while I certainly don't want to adapt to its workflow, this isn't even the main reason. It's all the various things that simply don't work as intended and a whole bunch of other things that could be easily implemented to enhance your workflow.
This has allways been the main difference between Cubase and Logic. You'll most likely find tons of new features in any update of Cubase, whereas in Logic you'll find tons of workflow improvements.
I'm not claiming Logic is ideal, by no means, but they certainly *do* care about ergonomics a LOT - something other developers seem to easily forget about, Steinberg being a prime example. Unfortunately that is. Believe me, I tried to like Cubase (or better: re-like it, as it's been my one and only love many years back), having to use it for my classes and such, but I failed miserably.

he's using the windows version

Yeah, but the wait will be over soon. Gonna go for a MacBook Pro in autumn I think. By then the most important intel conversions should be done (namely Logic, NIs stuff, U-He's and FXpansions plugins). I just fell in love with being all mobile (my current main music machine being a laptop as well) and finally Apples laptops are quite powerful and not even priced as ridiculous as they used to be (plus, I qualify for educational discounts). Add Logics uber-optimized performance and it should be a pretty nice setup.

Ah well, enough of all that. Sorry for the OT drift.

[grymmjack]

It is undeniably a thing of great beauty Sasha.

(but I'm not buying a mac )

he's using the windows version

Except logic is no longer supported on windows right? Since emagic was bought by apple? I own sound diver and am sad to see that it too is no longer supported.

[Sascha Franck]

But surely that's (1) no longer available and (2) getting a bit long in the tooth now isn't it? (cool mixer though!)

Yeah, availability is tough.
As far as "long in the tooth" goes, certainly, when it comes to audio functionalities (still not ideal in v7 either...) and support of some VST plugins.
Also, the lack of things such as freezing or offline bounce is quite annoying sometimes, since my laptop isn't exactly as powerful as I'd wish (especially since Guitar Rig 2 is such a CPU hog - but a lovely one at that).
But, IMO it still excels at all things regarding ergonomics and it's also kickass for MIDI editing.
Apart from a few quirks it's probably got everything I need to be sorted for many many years to come, but as I'm a tech whore (who at KVR isn't?) and as I need to be sort of up to date for one of my jobs (teaching computer music classes that is), I just have to work with "modern" hosts.

[nohd]

Sascha
I don't mean to be confrontational but that logic interface looks awful. I am from the "old school" and
I like the way cubase is setup. Cubase is the closet thing to a hardware studio you going to get. If you go
to a hardware studio you are going to see a rack of synths. Even though cubase automatically adds the vst outputs to the mixer it still feels like a "real studio". I
always thought pluging in the vst's directly into the mixer was backwards. My friend has logic and I try my best to get into it but it doesn't feel like a hardware
studio to me. Yeah it works good but that interface is
horrible. Now if only cubase would bring back the effects rack.

[jens]

Ok, BONES, Shane, Krim et all, as BONES asked, here's some screenshots and explanations of the Logic mixer.
Please note: I don't want to show you the beauty of the mixer (because everybody may have a different opinion on that) and I also don't want to show off as a Logic fanboy (which I certainly am, but that's beyond the point).
The sole purpose is to describe certain functionalities that I'd really love to see being implemented in other hosts as well.

Also, some things can't be told by screenshots, but I'll explain.

Ok, first thing I really love is that you can just exchange the used VSTi straight inside the mixer. No need for any further routings or so, let alone a stupid, completely useless VSTi rack like in Cubarse. It's all straight there on the mixer channel.

The next great thing is that the mixer is "autoselecting" channels when you select a track.
You can see this here:



What you can't see is another neat feature if screen estate is limited: When you doubleclick on the send button, it'll automatically take you to the bus it's sending to.
What you can't see either is that plugin windows are "link-able". Meaning that when you open a plugin, the previously opened one will automatically close.
Of course, both the mixer and plugin linking is optional (fwiw, the same goes for *any* editor, you can have them follow your selection or make them "permanent", plus you can of course open, say, multiple piano rolls at once, which is good for comparing parts):



In addition, as you may have seen from the window boundaries allready, the mixer is no "normal" window, but a "float" one (aka "allways on top). As a result of that, you can drag it anywhere - great for dual monitor setups, especially when resizing your main program window would be uncomfortable (because you may work with differently sized monitors).
You can also resize the window to your likings
Btw, again the same is true for editors and the likes. You can make any window "floating". Really really neat.

As a result of the link and float functions, the mixer can be configured as a single channel strip, which is particularly great if screen estate is limited:


And finally, the mixer is freely configurable. I can just drag the strips around as much as I like, completely independent from my arrangements track listing (mind you, there's a second mixer in Logic as well, the socalled "Track Mixer", which will allways represent the arrange track order - so there's one for everybody).
Might look like this:



A last thing to mention would be multiout plugins. The multiouts aren't added automatically, cluttering up your mixer, but you have to define them yourself. There's socalled "aux objects" and you define their input. Takes a tad longer than, say, Cubase's approach of auto-adding, but I find it way more effective, as a) you can of course place them wherever you want as well and b) you don't have to hide the not wanted channels.
You can see one of those aux channels in the last screenshot (the "Battery Snare" channel).

Oh, before I forget: I can easily re-order the plugin chain as well (via drag and drop), and my channels won't lose their settings when replacing the instrument (such as in Cubarse).
The latest versions of Logic have all those functionalities improved again, you can now drag and drop effects straight in the mixer, the channelstrip is integrated by default (of course you can switch it off) and you don't even need to doubleclick on an instrument insert anymore to get to the GUI, it'll open automatically once you select a track (of course that's optional as well).

Now, as said, I don't want to say everything has to be (or look) like in Logic, but IMO there's quite some functionalities that other hosts could probably learn from, namely linked windows, be it mixers, editors or plugin GUIs. The option to make each and everything "float" is another great bonus.

Sorry for the partially oversized screenshots, but I wanted things to be shown in real life size.

Disclaimer: This post was made without any host wars intended.

a lot of this is indeed very similar to eXT