NI is now part of Soundwide with plugin alliance etc! Lots of free stuff...

[Kr3eM]

You own a license and don't own software just like you own a hardware but don't own any hardware patents, know-how etc. I think you're just splitting hairs here for the lack of any argument

You never own software. It's not a physical product so different laws apply. That's a key essential difference. One that many can't seem to grasp for some reason.

Not sure which laws you are refering to, ELUA means nothing in court since it can't trump actually consumer protection laws...and they never should.

It's been a constant legal fight since corporations saw the possibility to remove ownership... but AFAIK perpetual licenses are still considered to be goods and therefor falls under the same ownership as physical goods in most contries...


https://linustechtips.com/topic/953835- ... ropaganda/

" Despite the confusion suggested by the US' lower court rulings on software, the US, likewise to Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Germany, Austria, France, and I think the rest of the Western world, is signatory to the Nice Agreement, which is a multinational treaty that contains the International Classification of Goods and Services (also known as the Nice Classification) which puts the classification of goods and services for those countries under the jurisdiction and authority of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). The World Intellectual Property Organization classifies all forms of software as Class 9 goods, including:

090829 - computer game software, downloadable

090670 - computer game software, recorded

090589 - computer operating programs, recorded

090658 - computer programs, downloadable

090373 - computer programs, recorded

090802 - computer screen saver software, recorded or downloadable

090717 - computer software applications, downloadable

090791 - computer software platforms, recorded or downloadable

090591 - computer software, recorded



Correspondingly, the US Patent and Trademark Office also classifies all software as goods. "


On a personal note I don't care what any law says, if I paid for it I own it and no matter how anyone spins it I won't change my mind... I'm not a big fan of corporatocracy

[Aloysius]

You will own nothing and be happy.

[ghettosynth]

https://linustechtips.com/topic/953835-you-own-the-
software-that-you-purchase-and-any-claims-otherwise-are-urban-myth-or-corporate-propaganda/

On a personal note I don't care what any law says, if I paid for it I own it and no matter how anyone spins it I won't change my mind... I'm not a big fan of corporatocracy

Fantastic link! Thanks for posting. KVR often seems to fall victim to some sort of Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to vendors. This has happened numerous times with other kinds of IP. The hivemind seems often willing to extend various IP rights beyond what the law actually protects.

[0degree]

https://linustechtips.com/topic/953835-you-own-the-
software-that-you-purchase-and-any-claims-otherwise-are-urban-myth-or-corporate-propaganda/

On a personal note I don't care what any law says, if I paid for it I own it and no matter how anyone spins it I won't change my mind... I'm not a big fan of corporatocracy

Fantastic link! Thanks for posting. KVR often seems to fall victim to some sort of Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to vendors. This has happened numerous times with other kinds of IP. The hivemind seems often willing to extend various IP rights beyond what the law actually protects.

Exactly - I hope this ends the "oh, bUT yOu dONt oWN iT" discussion.

[chk071]

Not sure which laws you are refering to, ELUA means nothing in court since it can't trump actually consumer protection laws...and they never should.

True, but, they're usually made with taking actual laws in consideration. Insofar that's possible, considering that most one man audio software businesses will surely not be able to consult a lawyer to draw up their EULA's.

What an offtopic discussion in this thread though.

[ghettosynth]

Not sure which laws you are refering to, ELUA means nothing in court since it can't trump actually consumer protection laws...and they never should.

True, but, they're usually made with taking actual laws in consideration. Insofar that's possible, considering that most one man audio software businesses will surely not be able to consult a lawyer to draw up their EULA's.

Where they include as much as they think that they can get away with for their benefit, and none for yours. This is addressed to some extent in the linked post which is well worth reading. EULAs have often included unenforceable text, ostensibly written by lawyers. Moreover, a key point is how vendors purposely manipulate semantics to make consumers believe that they have more rights than they do.
This thread is evidence that many of you have been fully manipulated by this language being repeated often enough. From their POV, that's a success! You believe that you don't own the things that you actually do own. You believe that you don't have the consumer rights that you actually do have. They're winning.

What an offtopic discussion in this thread though.

Bullshit! This is a post about a merger between firms that either have either significantly embraced or appear open to embracing subscriptions. This is exactly on topic to talk about subscriptions and consumer rights. A conversation like this is going to take twists and turns when people bring up irrelevant points and it's spot on topic to provide data to educate.

[chk071]

Bullshit! This is a post about a merger between firms that either have either significantly embraced or appear open to embracing subscriptions. This is exactly on topic to talk about subscriptions and consumer rights. A conversation like this is going to take twists and turns when people bring up irrelevant points and it's spot on topic to provide data to educate.

I just wondered if I'm really on an internet forum. Or in wonderland.

Well, seriously. This thread is about NI being part of Soundwide now, and "lots of free stuff", no (once again) political talk about consumer rights, EULA's, and all that.

[glokraw]

Probably old news by now, and mentioned in the kvr bitwig forum, Bitwig and Splice have created a rent-to-own program to buy the Bitwig daw, $15.99/month for 25 months.

Better and cheaper than renting a netflix package, for anyone with an IQ better than a potato

[Synth Master Jedi]

Better and cheaper than renting a netflix package, for anyone with an IQ better than a potato

I guess that I have an IQ worse than a potato in that case, because I pay for Netflix every month (mostly for my wife to watch some stuff she likes), I think it's around $17.99 a month now and I already have a DAW and am not interested in any more DAWs.

[jasonekratz]

https://linustechtips.com/topic/953835-you-own-the-
software-that-you-purchase-and-any-claims-otherwise-are-urban-myth-or-corporate-propaganda/

On a personal note I don't care what any law says, if I paid for it I own it and no matter how anyone spins it I won't change my mind... I'm not a big fan of corporatocracy

Fantastic link! Thanks for posting. KVR often seems to fall victim to some sort of Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to vendors. This has happened numerous times with other kinds of IP. The hivemind seems often willing to extend various IP rights beyond what the law actually protects.

That article consistently brings up the difficulties with the law and the rulings/interpretations of the law. The author says all this while at the same time telling us definitively that we own the software we buy. So the courts, etc. can't seem to get it right yet this internet rando thinks he knows the definitive answer?

[jasonekratz]

Better and cheaper than renting a netflix package, for anyone with an IQ better than a potato

I guess that I have an IQ worse than a potato in that case, because I pay for Netflix every month (mostly for my wife to watch some stuff she likes), I think it's around $17.99 a month now and I already have a DAW and am not interested in any more DAWs.

I have Live and Logic already, neither of which lets me watch The Witcher

[glokraw]

Better and cheaper than renting a netflix package, for anyone with an IQ better than a potato

I guess that I have an IQ worse than a potato in that case, because I pay for Netflix every month (mostly for my wife to watch some stuff she likes), I think it's around $17.99 a month now and I already have a DAW and am not interested in any more DAWs.

Better a happy wife, than a mashed potato

[Synth Master Jedi]

Better a happy wife, than a mashed potato

That is true.

[hebex]

Last time I was excited by a NI product was when Tim Exile released The Mouth, that was 12 years ago.

I noticed shortly thereafter how NI gradually became less fun and more and more uninteresting. No more exciting things exploring new technologies in a creative way, just an endless amount of same, same libraries for Kontakt and Machine etc.

Kontakt, for example, has had the same boring non-user-friendly GUI overdue for a radical makeover for 15+ years now. Too small buttons to click and looking like it was designed in the 1990-s.

Is it by chance that the slow-down appeared at about the same time the NI products with the regular "Komplete"-offerings more and more started to look like a subscription? I don´t think so.

[ghettosynth]

Last time I was excited by a NI product was when Tim Exile released The Mouth, that was 12 years <video snip>
I noticed shortly thereafter how NI gradually became less fun and more and more uninteresting. No more exciting things exploring new technologies in a creative way, just an endless amount of same, same libraries for Kontakt and Machine etc.

Yeah, there have been a couple of interesting things from my POV. Form, Blocks, Super8, Molecular, Kontour, all Reaktor products. But I completely agree that they've lost their way and that they are producing very low effort stuff at high prices.

Kontakt, for example, has had the same boring non-user-friendly GUI overdue for a radical makeover for 15+ years now. Too small buttons to click and looking like it was designed in the 1990-s.

Is it by chance that the slow-down appeared at about the same time the NI products with the regular "Komplete"-offerings more and more started to look like a subscription? I don´t think so.

Not to mention how long it takes them to get new DSP into Kontakt. I want them to stay alive for the sake of Reaktor and Kontakt, but I'm not giving them money for releasing more junk. Neither is worth a subscription though.