The Legend HZ by Synapse Audio now available!

[exmatproton]

EDIT: But if I am not wrong, you can't play with the phase so it is only on the filter or volume or pitch...
At high frequency, it seems to behave a bit weirdly, can somebody confirm what the user guide is saying ?

That is what i was saying. Would be nice if they add the option to make it behave better, when using higher frequencies.
It reminds me of the sound when using low quality mode in Dune, when using an OSC to modulate something.

I've searched the manual for info about the mod matrix in combination with OSC3 and OSC6, but couldn't find any relevant information about it, other then the 2 osc's can be used as mod sources.

[Jac459]

EDIT: But if I am not wrong, you can't play with the phase so it is only on the filter or volume or pitch...
At high frequency, it seems to behave a bit weirdly, can somebody confirm what the user guide is saying ?

That is what i was saying. Would be nice if they add the option to make it behave better, when using higher frequencies.
It reminds me of the sound when using low quality mode in Dune, when using an OSC to modulate something.

I've searched the manual for info about the mod matrix in combination with OSC3 and OSC6, but couldn't find any relevant information about it, other then the 2 osc's can be used as mod sources.

Yeah, fair enough. I tested too fast. I tried on the filter and it was working reasonably well.
but in fact when trying a bit more it doesn't sound like for example phase plant.

EDIT: Again, playing a bit more, when I compare to phase plan, most of the time I play with phase modulation and harmonic modulation which gave immediate satisfying result.

But if I try with RM and FM, it is actually quite similar. There is a difference of behavior but it could be the modelisation of the analog aspect....

Happy to get the view of others on this one.

[zerocrossing]

Also does it have alternate filter types besides an " accurate transistor ladder"? 2 pole low pass, Bandpass, highpass, less "analog" flavored filters pulled from Dune? Seems like a fun addition.

12 and 24 db low and band pass modes.

Furthermore is the filterbank per voice or part of an effect chain? If it is per voice can it be tuned as a whole?

Part of the effect chain, sadly.

[Teksonik]

I'm not an expert but I read somewhere in some review that it's the other way around.
Legend HZ is apparently more "modern" than Dune 3 because it allows for more mod on the VCOs, which sounded strange to me - as you say - because Dune can use wavetable and crazy stuff.

Whoever wrote than review is incorrect. Legend seeks to nail the sound of a synth released in 1970. Yes there are many added features not found on the original MiniMoog but it's still a gen one analog synth. DUNE 3 is what I call Analog 2.0 with a more high definition sound. I liken it to the difference between watching a movie on VHS tape and watching the same film on 4K BluRay.

As for VCO mods take a look at the difference:


Legend:

Legend Mod.png

DUNE 3:

D3 Mod.png

[Jac459]

I'm not an expert but I read somewhere in some review that it's the other way around.
Legend HZ is apparently more "modern" than Dune 3 because it allows for more mod on the VCOs, which sounded strange to me - as you say - because Dune can use wavetable and crazy stuff.

Whoever wrote than review is incorrect. Legend seeks to nail the sound of a synth released in 1970. Yes there are many added features not found on the original MiniMoog but it's still a gen one analog synth. DUNE 3 is what I call Analog 2.0 with a more high definition sound. I liken it to the difference between watching a movie on VHS tape and watching the same film on 4K BluRay.

As for VCO mods take a look at the difference:

Legend:
DUNE 3:

I can't quite agree with your image mate.

It is more like Legend HZ is a ford mustang from the 1970 and Dune 3 is a Tesla.

(I chose this example because I am sure you will looooove it)

[Teksonik]

They're both great synths but if someone can only afford one then the choice is obvious to me.

Only if you know what they want to use it for. I could make a lifetime of music with either.

Of course, you could make a lifetime of paintings with only the color red as well but they're all going to look pretty samey. Imagine what lifetime of paintings you could make with the entire color spectrum to work with.

Unless you are keen to precisely replicate the sound of a Model D, which makes it exactly the kind of ridiculous assertion that you are arguing against.

My point is that you can get really close to the sound of a Model D with DUNE 3 and go light years beyond. I can make countless awesome VA sounds with D3 that Legend could not possibly hope to replicate. It's just a matter of whether you want to ride a bicycle or drive a Ferrari. To me the choice is clear. If one is a beginner to the world of synthesis perhaps Legend would be the place to start and then graduate to D3 when their skills become more advanced.

In fact, the pair of you are useless and your ridiculous hyperbole is helping no-one. Please stop it and try to understand what the other is trying to get at.

Since you are the undisputed king of useless posts I don't take anything you say seriously. Your myopia on the subject of synthesis has never helped anyone here or anywhere else. All you've managed to accomplish is to dumb things down to your level.

[Teksonik]

I disagree with your conclusion because again, you are taking a very specific population that can only afford one generalist synth.

I think there is another population that has already a lot of synths, probably already a few generalist synths they like and who are looking for "character" synths, with specific workflows that won't be similar to their generalist synth.

You're laboring under the misconception that "generalist" synths can't have character. That is simply not the case.

My point has been that if one can only afford Legend or DUNE 3 the choice is clear to me because D3 is a far more capable synth by its very design and is full of wonderful character. My advice as always is if you can only afford one then demo both of them and find the one that fits your present needs the most. If you can afford both then owning both certainly isn't a bad idea.

Yes Avenger 2, Parawave Rapid, Blue 3, Icarus 3, etc etc are all great advanced synths and I enjoy owning them all. Each is worth a demo if one is in the market for a super synth.

I can't quite agree with your image mate.
It is more like Legend HZ is a ford mustang from the 1970 and Dune 3 is a Tesla.
(I chose this example because I am sure you will looooove it)

Yes because I used to own a Mustang and while it was fun to drive at the time the car I own now simply blows it away with handling, acceleration, comfort, styling, etc.

I'm not one of those old guys who is stuck in the past. I'm someone who relishes the fact that we are in the golden age of synthesis right now and to me looking back holds no appeal.

On to the future. And on that note I'm off to actually use the great synths at my disposal. Enough talking about them.....

[Jac459]

I disagree with your conclusion because again, you are taking a very specific population that can only afford one generalist synth.

I think there is another population that has already a lot of synths, probably already a few generalist synths they like and who are looking for "character" synths, with specific workflows that won't be similar to their generalist synth.

You're laboring under the misconception that "generalist" synths can't have character. That is simply not the case.

My point has been that if one can only afford Legend or DUNE 3 the choice is clear to me because D3 is a far more capable synth by its very design and is full of wonderful character. My advice as always is if you can only afford one then demo both of them and find the one that fits your present needs the most. If you can afford both then owning both certainly isn't a bad idea.

Yes Avenger 2, Parawave Rapid, Blue 3, Icarus 3, etc etc are all great advanced synths and I enjoy owning them all. Each is worth a demo if one is in the market for a super synth.

I can't quite agree with your image mate.
It is more like Legend HZ is a ford mustang from the 1970 and Dune 3 is a Tesla.
(I chose this example because I am sure you will looooove it)

Yes because I used to own a Mustang and while it was fun to drive at the time the car I own now simply blows it away with handling, acceleration, comfort, styling, etc.

I'm not one of those old guys who is stuck in the past. I'm someone who relishes the fact that we are in the golden age of synthesis right now and to me looking back holds no appeal.

On to the future. And on that note I'm off to actually use the great synths at my disposal. Enough talking about them.....

Well I am not done with you.

(I am in the process of mastering one track and I find it very very tiring so to protect my hears I work 10 minutes and take 20 minutes of break).

If I could agree with your very modernist view (I am myself on this side, just not as hardcore than you), how dare you even having Avenger 2 and Blue 3 in the same sentence ????
Predator 3 why not. But Blue 3 is the biggest let down of Rob Papen. With this synth, they came from the first Division to regional or even departmental division.

What do you like about it ? I am curious.

[exmatproton]

But if I try with RM and FM, it is actually quite similar. There is a difference of behavior but it could be the modelisation of the analog aspect....

Happy to get the view of others on this one.

Well, compared to Phaseplant...

[pdxindy]

My point has been that if one can only afford Legend or DUNE 3 the choice is clear to me because D3 is a far more capable synth by its very design and is full of wonderful character.

Your choice is clear to you. Someone else may like Legend better. Then of course they can download Zebralette 3 (which is free) and it will compliment Legend very well.

[Jac459]

You're laboring under the misconception that "generalist" synths can't have character. That is simply not the case.

No no no. Not my point at all, Avenger 2 being the awesome synth that it is has a lot of character.

What I am saying is that workflow-wise, it can also make sense (or simply be pleasant) to have more restricted synths with one type of sound, you are used to use them for (bass, plucks, pad, whatever).
So Dune 3 (an excellent synth) doesn't bring much to my workflow because 90% of the time I am taking Avenger 2, when I consider that I need a generalist synth.
But for certain types of pad, I still prefer to use Novum, for certain bass Obsession, for certain leads or plucks Spire, for more growling bass, Thorn or Serum, and so on and so forth. In that sense, HZ will have a spot I feel for certain sounds because it does them very well and can bring me there very fast. Faster than Dune.

[Jac459]

But if I try with RM and FM, it is actually quite similar. There is a difference of behavior but it could be the modelisation of the analog aspect....

Happy to get the view of others on this one.

Well, compared to Phaseplant...

It seems you are oscillating much slower with phase plant. Did you use 2 oscillators in both cases ?
Did you use both "modifier" oscillators with pitch tracking and the same initial pitch ?

Edit: and more importantly, what is your view?

[exmatproton]

But if I try with RM and FM, it is actually quite similar. There is a difference of behavior but it could be the modelisation of the analog aspect....

Happy to get the view of others on this one.

Well, compared to Phaseplant...

It seems you are oscillating much slower with phase plant. Did you use 2 oscillators in both cases ?
Did you use both "modifier" oscillators with pitch tracking and the same initial pitch ?

Edit: and more importantly, what is your view?

2 osc in both cases, both initial pitch and pitch tracking.
My view? My view is that TL HZ should be able to do audio rate with osc's 3 and 6 properly via the mod matrix

[exmatproton]

Did another test;

all triangle OSC's, 2 OSC's per note, LP filter cutoff half way down, no res peak, ~90% modulation from second triangle OSC. Both OSC's start at the same pitch and pitch down to -7 semitones. And then they hold for a moment.

1. phaseplant
2. the legend HZ - OSC3 via modmatrix
3. the legend HZ - OSC3 via the dedicated controls + modwheel

I think we can agree that there is a huge difference between the modulation from the modmatrix compared to the dedicated controls and the modhweel.

[seafire]

A wish, but something i consider to be a requirement that i would call a VST-I a outdeveloped product, is: please add a lock button to the FX bypass switches. One lock button that locks all FX bypass switch settings, vs. keeping these settings as set while we´d change the presets. That would make the handling, especially vs. the initial "check things out" days, way better. Quicker !
Hope you can consider these two @ Team Synapse Audio

You can lock FX on or Off on the main GUI panel, or do you mean something else?

i mean something slightly different, yes.
I mean a lock that locks the state of all FX bypass switches.
What you have is a lock that switches ALL FX off at the same time.

Phaser, Chorus, and especially the Filterbank might be a crucial part of a sound preset, and part of the whole sound design. While i would consider a Reverb and a Delay something "post the sound". Delay and Reverb is what we might have in place anyway.
And thats the two FX sounddesigners overuse !....quasi in any synth.
It can often ruin otherwise great sounds.

To have just the Delay and the Reverb switched off, ...and locked,....is just not the same as bypassing ALL FX.

check my phrasing:

One lock button that locks all FX bypass switch settings, vs. keeping these settings as set while we´d change the presets.

I agree, on usual synths -often enough-, you could just bypass ALL FX, donne.
But here vs. the Legend and vs. "the moog sound" ?
A more refined approach* would add to it in my opinion. ( *added on top of a global FX bypass)

but in all fairness, i have to confess, i previously indeed overlooked that FX bypass you mentioned
So, thanks for pointing that out !

Well, you can lock all the fx on front panel, or each one on the back panel, so hopefully one of those is useful for you.