KVR Audio

jam92189 · Post by **jam92189** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:12 am

djanthonyw wrote:After some testing, The Glue with Satson or especially with Nebula 4KD is simply awesome for adding saturation on top.

ah cool little tip. I dont really use satson for saturation but i might try that out with maybe my dcam freecomp that I am trying out

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:15 am

I think the DCAM compressors already have saturation built in, but I tested The Glue with saturation against them, and still like The Glue better. They're not bad though, especially with one of them being free.

jam92189 · Post by **jam92189** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:17 am

djanthonyw wrote:I think the DCAM compressors already have saturation built in, but I tested The Glue with saturation against them, and still like The Glue better. They're not bad though, especially with one of them being free.

Im talking about the free one I dont think it has any saturation

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:40 am

jam92189 wrote:
djanthonyw wrote:I think the DCAM compressors already have saturation built in, but I tested The Glue with saturation against them, and still like The Glue better. They're not bad though, especially with one of them being free.
Im talking about the free one I dont think it has any saturation

After trying it, I can tell that it does. I think they all have a little saturation built in, but the full versions have extra optional saturation. I'm just not keeping it due to the C / R protection, but still wanted to test it out to see how it compares.

jam92189 · Post by **jam92189** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:48 am

djanthonyw wrote:
jam92189 wrote:
djanthonyw wrote:I think the DCAM compressors already have saturation built in, but I tested The Glue with saturation against them, and still like The Glue better. They're not bad though, especially with one of them being free.
Im talking about the free one I dont think it has any saturation
After trying it, I can tell that it does. I think they all have a little saturation built in, but the full versions have extra optional saturation. I'm just not keeping it due to the C / R protection, but still wanted to test it out to see how it compares.

ah well the protection does not bother me. but uts a pretty good comp for free

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:02 am

Yea, I'd say it's the best free one I've tried.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:28 am

djanthonyw wrote:Andy, are there any plans on adding a saturation option to The Glue?

I didn't know what you were referring to here, but if this is in reference to the FXpansion compressors then please read the following:

I downloaded the FXpansion BusComp and can confirm that the saturation is not in the main signal path, it is a fixed button on/off to toggle saturation in the sidechain, so in that regard it is a limited version of what you get with the Range knob in The Glue. Since working at FXpansion and coding the original BusComp for BFD2 etc I've re-written the entire model, improving and extended in particular the sidechain saturation to more accurately model the analog circuit. I decided to give it a variable action and call it the Range knob, but it is just saturating the internal sidechain.

The way to hear what the Range knob and Saturation button do is to dial in the slowest attack, the fastest release, and a ratio of 10 and compress the crap out of the signal and feed it loud kick drum. In The Glue you cannot bypass the saturation, so you always get the same analog tone as the modern analog circuit The Glue is based on. You can move the Range knob and make it sound more like an older circuit with lower voltage rails. I did consider adding a "Digital" setting to the Range knob to make the compressor behave unlike a circuit can, with infinite voltage rails, but I figured it's just best to stick with how the analog compressor sounds in this respect since it sounds great and is one of the things that prevents the compressor diving too deep and over-compressing.

Also watch out when using the FXpansion compressors, they all have oversampling which you can't bypass that is not linear phase, so it will throw out the alignment of any tracks you put through them by a non-constant delay from 4 to 70 samples (edit: at dc it is actually around 4.12 samples) increasing with frequency. If you have two in series the latency non-linear latency doubles.

jam92189 · Post by **jam92189** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:51 am

andy_cytomic wrote:
djanthonyw wrote:Andy, are there any plans on adding a saturation option to The Glue?
I didn't know what you were referring to here, but if this is in reference to the FXpansion compressors then please read the following:

I downloaded the FXpansion BusComp and can confirm that the saturation is not in the main signal path, it is a fixed button on/off to toggle saturation in the sidechain, so in that regard it is a limited version of what you get with the Range knob in The Glue. Since working at FXpansion and coding the original BusComp for BFD2 etc I've re-written the entire model, improving and extended in particular the sidechain saturation to more accurately model the analog circuit. I decided to give it a variable action and call it the Range knob, but it is just saturating the internal sidechain.

The way to hear what the Range knob and Saturation button do is to dial in the slowest attack, the fastest release, and a ratio of 10 and compress the crap out of the signal and feed it loud kick drum. In The Glue you cannot bypass the saturation, so you always get the same analog tone as the modern analog circuit The Glue is based on. You can move the Range knob and make it sound more like an older circuit with lower voltage rails. I did consider adding a "Digital" setting to the Range knob to make the compressor behave unlike a circuit can, with infinite voltage rails, but I figured it's just best to stick with how the analog compressor sounds in this respect since it sounds great and is one of the things that prevents the compressor diving too deep and over-compressing.

Also watch out when using the FXpansion compressors, they all have oversampling which you can't bypass that is not linear phase, so it will throw out the alignment of any tracks you put through them by a non-constant delay from 4 to 70 samples increasing with frequency. If you have two in series the latency non-linear latency doubles.

I was talking about there new ones I only have tried the free one that came out and I notice no latency at all, But I have heard so many great things about the glue so If one will get my money its going to be the glue soon very soon

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:53 am

So is there actually no saturation in FreeComp? If there isn't, it sounds like there is. Are you also saying there is saturation in The Glue? I always thought that there wasn't?

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:30 am

djanthonyw wrote:So is there actually no saturation in FreeComp? If there isn't, it sounds like there is. Are you also saying there is saturation in The Glue? I always thought that there wasn't?

I have checked the FXpansion BusComp, and the main signal path is clean just like The Glue, even when the saturation button is pressed. I cannot comment on the FXpansion FreeComp since I've not looked at it.

There is saturation in the sidechain all the time in The Glue, and there is a button to enable it called "saturation" on the FXpansion BusComp.

djanthonyw · Post by **djanthonyw** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:33 am

Ok, thanks for clarifying Andy.

antithesist · Post by **antithesist** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:08 am

What does saturation in the side-chain do to the sound through the compressor?

By saturation, are you talking about a non-linear transfer function (wave shaper?) that adds harmonics/distortion? Is it clipping?

If so, it seems to me that the additional harmonics would be filtered out for all practical purposes in changing the audio coming into the detector into an envelope/control signal, or do the distortions have a weighting/limiting effect to the envelope?

Maybe my modular synth "envelope follower -> control voltage processing (lag/invert/bias) -> voltage controlled amplifier (VCA) CV in / audio -> VCA audio in -> VCA audio out -> audio output" amplitude modulation model doesn't apply here like I thought it would.

Thanks for the other information regarding the fxpansion up-sampling, too.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:32 am

All non-linear processing in the sidechain alters the shape of the resultant envelope follower signal being sent to the main amp. An example of this non-linear processing is the ratio shaper, and in The Glue there is also additional modelling of non-linearities in the sidechain that can be controlled with the Range knob.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:38 am

For the actual details of the all the non-linearities in the SSL 4000 compressor that The Glue is based on you can refer to the schematics: http://www.ka-electronics.com/images/SS ... _index.htm

Also, you're welcome with regards the heads up on the non-linear phase oversampling. There are benefits to this kind of processing since it is low latency for most frequencies, but it can also cause phase problems with your mix so you need to watch out.

Phase47 · Post by **Phase47** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:38 pm

Demoing the Glue now - in Logic. Is there a way to see a pulldown menu of the presets? I can cycle through them, but it's a bit tedious that way. The normal area where the pulldown menu would show the presets is just only "default". I can find the preset menu, etc., but something isn't right. Just downloaded the demo from Cytomic's site - v1.2.1.

Anybody?

Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor