Guitar players! The search for Amp Sims is over AXE-FX

[OzoneJunkie]

I will be most definitely trying the VST ampsim, given that there it doesn't need a dongle.

If I like, I might even consider the hardware unit.

From what I've read, the VST version will have a dongle, in the form of an external audio interface. I'm not sure if there will be any special processing done by that interface, but regardless, in effect this is a dongle.

I read about the VST after I ordered my AFX hardware unit... and thought "eek, wish I had known..." but, at this point I'm happy with what I have - if I play live, the hardware unit makes more sense (unless you're already bringing a laptop to your gigs).

[shogger]

those and would let me do some heavy guitar sound tests with it? And for the more likely case: When will the VST be ready and the demo available?

Not sure when the VST will be ready.

I can point you to some soundclips of some heavy stuff, using just the Axe-Fx. These are some of the clips that pushed me towards the AFX:

Some cool links.

Thanx for that. Some interesting tones that have certain cool characteristics that somehow grab me.
What I'm looking for is a well defined crunchy high gain sound that works well for palm muting and soloing at the same time. The way that you don't have to fight with the guitar to make it sound good but organic and dynamic at the same time. The best example I have is the Diezel VH4 which is one of the best amps to me in many ways. And for sure it's great for those well defined aggressive high gain tones. Not like a swarm of fizzy moscitos but massive like a roaring V8 big block paired with razor sharp cutting attacks even under the most demanding circumstances (palm muting with neck humbucker).

Shogger

[OzoneJunkie]

those and would let me do some heavy guitar sound tests with it? And for the more likely case: When will the VST be ready and the demo available?

Not sure when the VST will be ready.

I can point you to some soundclips of some heavy stuff, using just the Axe-Fx. These are some of the clips that pushed me towards the AFX:

Some cool links.

Thanx for that. Some interesting tones that have certain cool characteristics that somehow grab me.
What I'm looking for is a well defined crunchy high gain sound that works well for palm muting and soloing at the same time. The way that you don't have to fight with the guitar to make it sound good but organic and dynamic at the same time. The best example I have is the Diezel VH4 which is one of the best amps to me in many ways. And for sure it's great for those well defined aggressive high gain tones. Not like a swarm of fizzy moscitos but massive like a roaring V8 big block paired with razor sharp cutting attacks even under the most demanding circumstances (palm muting with neck humbucker).

Shogger

Yeah. I'm after the same thing. As I've said, the presets on the AFX are ok, but you have to dive into it to get exactly what you're looking for. I'm still new, so I haven't built my personal set of presets yet.

Also, (repeating myself, sorry), there's a Diezel VH4 model, as well as an Engl Powerball model. The presets that use those are getting close to my ideal sounds.

I think it's interesting, that Fractal Audio builds models on some of these types of heads. And that Cliff, the maker of the AFX, will use real heads/amps, both the actual devices, as well as schematics, to build the models. The algorithms in the AFX are true beasts, allowing the AFX to get as close as possible to the real counterparts.

here's some more clips for you

http://www.falstudios.com/Junk/drop_C_to_drop_Gb.mp3

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=7137192

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=7069837

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=7044899

[zerocrossing]

What were you using before VSTs, if I can ask? Do you still use those previous solutions? Genuinely curious.

(Warning: long boring post to anyone but the geekiest...)

Well... it's an evolution of sorts.

My first amp was a Tasaco solid state crapbox with tremolo. Awesome. Then I moved up to a Vox Buckingham. It did look cool in its chrome built in amp stand. I ended up with a small Marshall solid state amp after that. From there I upgraded to an Ampeg SC140. That was by far my favorite actual amp of all time. I went an odd route and was using an ART SGX2000 with two Peavey keyboard amps at its output. Then I started using a Digitech 2120 into a Roland JC-120. Later those got replaced with Mackie powered PA monitors. The Digitech got years of use though. I was also using an Ampeg Retrorocket and a Johnson JT50 from time to time.

To bring the size of things down I replaced the Digitech 2120 with a Vox Tonelab SE into a Boss VF-1. I still have that set up, though it hasn't gotten much use since my move to Amplitube.

So, I guess I've been all over the place and I've never really owned a great all tube amp, though my brother has a great Mesa Boogie MarkIV that I've used. I do have to say that I'm very suspicious of super high end gear. I see a lot of people spending an awful lot of time and money looking for that magic tone when they could just be playing. I also get suspicious when I see a 100% awesome review of anything. Really, the Axe-FX is flawless?

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the sky will open up and angels will come and sing with me if I start using an Axe-Fx. I'm very suspicious of ultra expensive panaceas of tone, though. I feel the same way about people who push the "magic of real tubes" or "analog synths." The reason I listed all my stuff, including the junk, was to illustrate that I never stopped playing for a moment even when the stuff I had was crappy. I was always able to dial in some sort of usable sound no matter what I had.

[OzoneJunkie]

Ha, love that chrome amp stand.

Buddy had the ART unit as well - not bad for the time and $$$.

Is the Axe-Fx perfect? Hmmm... I do believe that's subjective. For me, I really don't have enough time with the device yet to say what I'd like changed about it.

Actually, I do sort of wish the digital output would do 44.1khz (it only does 48khz). Not a big deal, though.

I'd love to see a few more boutique amp models - Engl Invader, for one.

I feel you on being hesitant about high end gear. I read a good amount, listened to a lot of clips, before I considered buying. And all of that research was just for that - to determine if the step of buying was the next thing for me - so I could evaluate it. Bought it, evaluated, love it, keeping it. That simple, really.

Likely had I gone another route, like Amplitube Metal, I'd have found something that works for me as well... I just happened to take the AFX route - admittedly the expensive path...

[OzoneJunkie]

Hmmm, one more thing: right now, since I'm not playing live anywhere, I'd probably be better served with a VST. As it is, I had to buy the M-Audio Fast Track Pro (for S/PDIF and MIDI), just to get the AFX output to my computer (as well as do sysex for firmware upgrades, etc.).

The upcoming VST version - I don't like that fact that it's going to require the dongle - in the form of the external audio interface, as I really don't want another interface. I'm putting up with having an external now just for the AFX... not something I really wanted to do. I prefer all software...

[zerocrossing]

Likely had I gone another route, like Amplitube Metal, I'd have found something that works for me as well... I just happened to take the AFX route - admittedly the expensive path...

I'm listening to the examples you posted. They sound good. I love an ultra high gain tone, that's for sure, though I'm not into heavy metal. Sorry I'm coming down hard on you. I have a thin skin when I feel like I'm being sold to. If you have something good, show it to me and if it is what you say, trust me I'll bite. Do you work for Fractalaudio?

Maybe the question I ask is, "where does this all go?" What's good? How much do you have to spend to have "the best?" Don't even get started on the "subjective" part. I'm always blown away by people here who say that Guitar Rig is the best. I feel I must be a different species than they are.

I have a friend who seems to constantly be on the hunt for something that makes his Tonelab sound better. He was looking at the Atomic stuff to help him make it more "real." Maybe this would do it for him. The ironic part is that when he and I used to play together a lot, I always thought his guitar sounded great.

I'm on the Fractalaudio site now listening and.. yeah, it sounds good... Maybe I'm jealous that I don't have the $2K to spend on a guitar processor... especially one that's essentially software running on dedicated hardware. I wonder how much the VST version would be. I do know one thing though, and that every time I start feeling envious about some bit of kit I find that what I'm really feeling is the envy for people who have more time to play. In fact, that's just what I'll do! Bye...

[OzoneJunkie]

Trust me, I'm feeling everything you said.

And once again, I honestly do not work for Fractal Audio. I apologize for the extra shellac on my early posts - like I said, I can see how they come off - does sound like marketing hype, or more - a spectacular wonder-story guaranteed to bring peace love and prosperity to all the land.

I'm not unlike you in that I have a tendency to look behind the curtain, especially when things seem to good to be true.

I was just playing through my AFX. I'm still a few steps away from what I'm after. The guitar/PUPs for one - that I know. And playing through the Klipsch speakers - again, I know that's not "right".

There's a certain brightness that I'm looking for that I'm missing. Changing from my Jackson, to the homemade guitar (Dimarzio Humbucker in bridge, Fender Strat single coils in mid and neck), I can hear the difference - the effect of playing through different pickups. The Fender single coils sound great, on presets that have that type of feel.

I checked out one of the user made presets - one of the Vai ones. It's nice. But the user's recording of that preset sounds better (he does have a backing track behind him, but that's not it). My quest isn't done yet - I have to figure out the rest of my chain.

Then I'll be truly happy. The AFX is, without a doubt, to me, the crucial element - the cornerstone to what I'm trying to build. I've really never been closer than I am now, to having the exact tones I want. I just need the rest of the right components to bring out the best in it - to make it shine the way I know it can.

[OzoneJunkie]

Getting somewhere. Back to the Vai preset. Played with some post processing, added a high shelf filter: 1200hz, 5.1 dB gain.

Definitely better. Closer, still not ideal. 85 to 90% there.

EDIT: Found a really nice user preset = going for a Tool tone. Really freaking nice. Finding the rhythm tones I'm after are a bit easier. I'm thinking the barrier to the lead tones are the pickups... I can see having a few guitars - get the variety I'm after :0

[OzoneJunkie]

zero - check your PMs...

[zerocrossing]

Trust me, I'm feeling everything you said.

And once again, I honestly do not work for Fractal Audio. I apologize for the extra shellac on my early posts - like I said, I can see how they come off - does sound like marketing hype, or more - a spectacular wonder-story guaranteed to bring peace love and prosperity to all the land.

Maybe I was just mad at the phrase the "search is over." The quest is never over! I'm hoping on my deathbed they announce a new expansion...

I was just playing through my AFX. I'm still a few steps away from what I'm after. The guitar/PUPs for one - that I know. And playing through the Klipsch speakers - again, I know that's not "right".

Right is where you find it. For years I played a Digitech 2120 into a pair of Peavey 60 watt keyboard amplifiers. Sounded great. I upgraded to a pair of Mackies at one point and went back. The keyboard amps sounded better in that context. To me Klipsch speaker sound like their PA speaker heritage. Fine, but not what I like in my living room. All the examples of music on my site is my Digitech 2120 direct.

There's a certain brightness that I'm looking for that I'm missing.

That may in fact be partially the coloring the Klipsches are giving you. If you're going to be using the AXE-FX in a live situation then maybe a good set of powered PA speakers would do the trick. In my studio I swear by my Mackie hr824s. There may be better monitors but for me they do the trick.

Then I'll be truly happy. The AFX is, without a doubt, to me, the crucial element - the cornerstone to what I'm trying to build. I've really never been closer than I am now, to having the exact tones I want. I just need the rest of the right components to bring out the best in it - to make it shine the way I know it can.

No you won't! There's more! More amp types... effects... guitars... the quest is the fun!

One thing that I do that's probably not the best is I have EMG pickups on my old 90s Steinberger. They've very rich and chimey so they give my modeler a lot to work with. There's this switch on their to change them up... and I never ever touch it. Middle is a single coil and bridge is a humbucker and they are harmonically rich so the rest I do in my "amp." I think of it like subtractive synthesis. Put in a harmonically rich waveform and filter out what you don't want.

[OzoneJunkie]

Thanks for the help and guidance.

I do need to have the proper speakers to run through. But, at the same time, I'm listening to direct recordings done by the Axe-Fx, with no post processing, through the Klipsch, and those recording sound good.

Now, I have some of those very presets. Ignoring the obvious differences in playing technique, I would think that I should get out the same tones that others are getting, EXCEPT that I have a different guitar/PUPs.

In a few cases, I am getting very very close sounds as others - for the rhythm tones I'm after. It's the leads - again, the Vai tones, that I'm not close enough with. One of the Vai preset makers is playing with an Ibanez JEM, so, as one would expect, he's got a pretty darn good Vai tone.

The Klipsch speakers will get a replacement, but, music does sound pretty good through them. If I can get the tones that others are getting out of the AFX (and again, I'm getting close), by throwing the right pickups at it, well, I really may be at the end of my search. And I wouldn't be the first AFX owner to say that... it seems the AFX has cured a number of guitar players GAS for new gear...

- John

[shogger]

Thanx for that. Some interesting tones that have certain cool characteristics that somehow grab me.
What I'm looking for is a well defined crunchy high gain sound that works well for palm muting and soloing at the same time. The way that you don't have to fight with the guitar to make it sound good but organic and dynamic at the same time. The best example I have is the Diezel VH4 which is one of the best amps to me in many ways. And for sure it's great for those well defined aggressive high gain tones. Not like a swarm of fizzy moscitos but massive like a roaring V8 big block paired with razor sharp cutting attacks even under the most demanding circumstances (palm muting with neck humbucker).

Shogger

Yeah. I'm after the same thing. As I've said, the presets on the AFX are ok, but you have to dive into it to get exactly what you're looking for. I'm still new, so I haven't built my personal set of presets yet.

Also, (repeating myself, sorry), there's a Diezel VH4 model, as well as an Engl Powerball model. The presets that use those are getting close to my ideal sounds.

I think it's interesting, that Fractal Audio builds models on some of these types of heads. And that Cliff, the maker of the AFX, will use real heads/amps, both the actual devices, as well as schematics, to build the models. The algorithms in the AFX are true beasts, allowing the AFX to get as close as possible to the real counterparts.

here's some more clips for you

http://www.falstudios.com/Junk/drop_C_to_drop_Gb.mp3

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=7137192

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=7069837

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=7044899

Thanx John, really cool. Would you please record one or two audios with the VH4 model? I would like to hear in which direction this emulation is and if it could be what I'm looking for.

Shogger

[OzoneJunkie]

I will upload some clips - will take me some time though. Need to set up a soundclick account, and record a few. I do want to post some clips, because I want to seek help in tweaking my sound, on the AFX forums.

btw, read a good post today on the AFX forums:

He's comparing a real Engl Blackmore, to the Axe-Fx VH4 model, so it's not necessarily a comparison or reality check, so much as whether the AFX holds up, tone-wise...

For the model he's using, "Das Metall" - that's a VH4 model. List of models here: ( http://axefxwiki.guitarlogic.org/index. ... imulations )

source: http://www.fractalaudio.com/forum/viewt ... 385#p36385

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well i did the same test this weekend, mic'd my current amp and cab setup and a/b'd with the axe.

engl blackmore with framus dragon 4x12 VS axe ( das metall with framus dragon 4x12 IR)

when comparing my mic'd rig and the axe, the axe killed my current rig

while my tube amp sounds amazing cranked up, i (and many other players out there) can't crank it to the level i'd like to live because of making the stage sound too loud.
To get an accurate recording of how my amp sounds live... i made sure i ran my amp on the same vol i do at gigs.
It did sound good, but i could tell i was really missing the nice top end i get on recordings due to not cranking the amp.

Soon as i plugged in the axe, it sounded like i was playing through a CRANKED tube amp. That was the main difference i noticed.
The overall tone was more in your face and alot clearer on the top end.

Look forward to my first gig with the axe going direct

I'll hopefully be getting a cd of the clips i recorded so i'll post em on the forum asap

You guys had a similar experience to mine?

[OzoneJunkie]

Furthermore, the "Tool" user-made patch I tried this weekend, is using 2 amps models:

Das Metall (VH4) and
Recto New (Mesa Dual Rectifier with an extra "cap" in it which gives it more sizzle.)

And that patch kills.