Your next amp

[hibidy]

I've decided it's not going to be a bad cat. (yep, you heard me!)

-too expensive
-too hot (temp according to many)
-too hard to get
-besides, I'm not "bad cat" good enough

I really want a combo (preferably a 1x12) , but I want to use the hot plate (or sim) to make sure it's not going to get the cops called on me.

I do not want any digital fx but an fx loop would be a bonus (maybe)

I do not care what kind of built in verb it has (as long as there is something)

I'm not building it.

That's all I can think of for now........but I'm sure there will be more

[Uncle E]

-too expensive

Did you see the new Cougars? They're significantly cheaper and are more shred-oriented than other Bad Cats.

-too hard to get

We're a dealer.

Anyway, wait for the Kemper amp profiler. It's the one.

[susiwong]

Thanks guys for your valued recommendations, Red Fang put on the list.
Vintage Celestions or Fanes would be no-brainers anyway, but they don't come up too often here for decent money.
A friend has several WGS loaded cabs, those are wonderful speakers for a fair price, far better than MIC Celestions imho.

And re loud, I do play louder than many others (including hibidy ) and enjoy 412s, but for the balls and projection, not for sheer volume as such.
That's so nice about my pathetic 35 watters, they have around 8dB less efficiency than T75s or V30s, making the amps scream a lot earlier.

A bit like cruising with a V8, you feel the raw power, even though that little Japanese sports car might be faster ...

Ymmv,
susiwong

On a different note, has anybody tried loading a 412 with 4 different speakers (of comparable efficiency) for recording ?
Does this make sense to get 4 different characters from the close mic, depending on placement ?
The room mic will obviously pick up a mix, but I wouldn't be afraid of that too much.

[Dean Aka Nekro]

I think that what happened to Peavey in the '80's affected pretty much a lot of amp co's though.

Most of my mucking abouts building amp cabs now has been with these things....

http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/

or these..

http://www.usspeaker.com/Maverick-1.htm

Mind, I'm still playing around with these things so any other suggestions as to what to check out will be mucho appreciated...

Well apart from anything Peavey bar 15" and possibly the odd gem?, You can not really go wrong with Celestion all the way but there is plenty out there as fine alternatives. Eminance, Jensen, Tayden to name but a few and also whatever the other guys have named. Eminance have an intresting one which allows one to attenuate via the speaker itself instead of a power brake/load box which i would really like to try/hear, Edit 2: here is a link to the Eminance 'FDM' thing on a guitar speaker: http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speake ... Reignmaker. I can not say anything specific as it depends what you are after. Expect to pay alot more for Alnico based speakers (back breakingly heavy also but for some they are tone heaven), Most common are Ceramic based and cover alot of ground/most common. Finally neodynium based seem to of taken off alot more for bass guitar use but still it is worth having a try with them for guitar use (your back will really thank you for it!). If you checkout say any of the RedWirez IRs and the ReCabinet one's that should be a decent rule of thumb but still not the same as trying in person and in one of your own cabinets

Eric gets to see/try/hear probably far more than most of us as of the JRR shop/business naturally and you know wandering around summer NAMM, Winter NAMM and The Amp Show each year plus maybe Musikmesse, Hink has alot of millage from retail, Susiwong has access to a total pr0n boutique that would make hibidy cry tears of joy and rage in equal measure plus other places (Thommann for VFM most likely) and hibidy knows more about speakers/cabs than he lets on from bass days re-re-visited and musicmans, clapton sig strats that pop up which would of needed some form of amplification pre-sims/emus (I'm on to you kitty cat !). My own local is rather good for a range of stuff basic to boutique as its not a chain store so i get the benefits of trying whatever they have in and as much as i dislike (read: hate!) London it is only a train ride away with a friend or two down denmark street. Celestions seem to be across the board speaker of choice in terms of application for most companys (if they do not offer a choice), Bass amps however see alot more variety in speaker choice

One thing i have only been able to try plug-in alternative of is this, I have asked the Two Notes people about UK distribution but that was awhile back and i must recheck actually come to think of it, Is one of these *potential* cab/mic eliminators: http://www.two-notes.com/en/hardware/torpedo-vm-202/
Put one of those paired together with one of these *potential* valve amp eliminators:
http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/lang ... fined.html

Might not ever have to think about any other real piece of pre-amp, power-amp, speaker cabinet, speaker and mic other than capturing whatever tickles your fancy *If it either would eliminate the real things, At least the real thing would have to be around for these to capture/profile. Do not know, The potential is definately there but atm i have not got enough to even think about dropping on either...and then could i really sell off my beloveds? So pure speculation for me*

Hope some of it helps and excuse me rambling on (personal bad habit i can not help )

Dean

Edit: Eric has already mentioned it above and before and tried it also

[Dean Aka Nekro]

On a different note, has anybody tried loading a 412 with 4 different speakers (of comparable efficiency) for recording ?
Does this make sense to get 4 different characters from the close mic, depending on placement ?
The room mic will obviously pick up a mix, but I wouldn't be afraid of that too much.

Well you know my celestion mis-match thing but they are fairly close effiency wise (G12100K bottom 2, G12 Vintage 30 top left and G12 Century or Heritage which is again IRRC 70 or 75-watts). It would not do any damage to try it aslong as the speaker with the lowest effeciency is not mullered of course. You know me, I say go for it if you have the time

Can not hurt and could bring colours galore as you have tweaked down on pretty much every other aspect i know of my friend

Dean

[Dean Aka Nekro]

A video overview of the Flux Density Modulation or FDM by Marty McFly from guitar world mag:

[susiwong]

On a different note, has anybody tried loading a 412 with 4 different speakers (of comparable efficiency) for recording ?
Does this make sense to get 4 different characters from the close mic, depending on placement ?
The room mic will obviously pick up a mix, but I wouldn't be afraid of that too much.

Well you know my celestion mis-match thing but they are fairly close effiency wise (G12100K bottom 2, G12 Vintage 30 top left and G12 Century or Heritage which is again IRRC 70 or 75-watts). It would not do any damage to try it aslong as the speaker with the lowest effeciency is not mullered of course. You know me, I say go for it if you have the time

Can not hurt and could bring colours galore as you have tweaked down on pretty much every other aspect i know of my friend

Thanks for the details !
For this project I definitely plan to use 8 Ohm speakers of similar efficiency.
The idea is to have a single default cab in the live room, set up with one close mic per speaker plus a common room mic, not unlike the Control Room in GR4.
Amps sitting at arm's length in the control room (my real one), and ideally all I want to hear is the cab mics in the monitors, being able to mix'n'match in the context of the rough mix.
I hate headphones, they give me paranoia.
Granted, sound proofing won't be easy, but the room situation doesn't look half bad atm, the biggest expense being a few soundproof doors and windows, as well as mostly home made absorbers and stuff.

We'll see in winter ...
susiwong

[trimph1]

On a different note, has anybody tried loading a 412 with 4 different speakers (of comparable efficiency) for recording ?
Does this make sense to get 4 different characters from the close mic, depending on placement ?
The room mic will obviously pick up a mix, but I wouldn't be afraid of that too much.

Well you know my celestion mis-match thing but they are fairly close effiency wise (G12100K bottom 2, G12 Vintage 30 top left and G12 Century or Heritage which is again IRRC 70 or 75-watts). It would not do any damage to try it aslong as the speaker with the lowest effeciency is not mullered of course. You know me, I say go for it if you have the time

Can not hurt and could bring colours galore as you have tweaked down on pretty much every other aspect i know of my friend

Thanks for the details !
For this project I definitely plan to use 8 Ohm speakers of similar efficiency.
The idea is to have a single default cab in the live room, set up with one close mic per speaker plus a common room mic, not unlike the Control Room in GR4.
Amps sitting at arm's length in the control room (my real one), and ideally all I want to hear is the cab mics in the monitors, being able to mix'n'match in the context of the rough mix.
I hate headphones, they give me paranoia.
Granted, sound proofing won't be easy, but the room situation doesn't look half bad atm, the biggest expense being a few soundproof doors and windows, as well as mostly home made absorbers and stuff.

We'll see in winter ...
susiwong

You will let us know about the progress being made ....I hope?

[Hink]

Thanks guys for your valued recommendations, Red Fang put on the list.
Vintage Celestions or Fanes would be no-brainers anyway, but they don't come up too often here for decent money.
A friend has several WGS loaded cabs, those are wonderful speakers for a fair price, far better than MIC Celestions imho.

And re loud, I do play louder than many others (including hibidy ) and enjoy 412s, but for the balls and projection, not for sheer volume as such.
That's so nice about my pathetic 35 watters, they have around 8dB less efficiency than T75s or V30s, making the amps scream a lot earlier.

A bit like cruising with a V8, you feel the raw power, even though that little Japanese sports car might be faster ...

Ymmv,
susiwong

On a different note, has anybody tried loading a 412 with 4 different speakers (of comparable efficiency) for recording ?
Does this make sense to get 4 different characters from the close mic, depending on placement ?
The room mic will obviously pick up a mix, but I wouldn't be afraid of that too much.

are your 35s G35s?

[trimph1]

@Dean...

My cab that I am currently toying with is an older one that I cobbled together some years ago using a pair of unknown Alnico 12" speakers....this thing was loud!! I used it with my somewhat cobbled together ham radio linear amp when I played my Arp2600...those speakers took a beating let me tell you!!

[Dean Aka Nekro]

Yeah i think you will really like the results, All the EQ can be done via the relative phase of each mic in level & panning. Say a 609, MD421, SM57, a good LDC further back and a ribbon if you have one = any movement will be noticable but usually in a good way (best done with headphones on whilst placing each mic and then fine tuning by ear). Maybe a reflexion filter on the back of the stand with the further placed LDC on it which should/will prevent the ribbon's backside as it were doesn't get that much room sound...All at your finger tips. Even try the ribbon or if no ribbon a LDC in onmi mode in M/S configuration plus the others. The tone is your oyster dude and you will feel godlyke

Not 'Omni' i mean figure 8 on that one!

[Dean Aka Nekro]

@Dean...

My cab that I am currently toying with is an older one that I cobbled together some years ago using a pair of unknown Alnico 12" speakers....this thing was loud!! I used it with my somewhat cobbled together ham radio linear amp when I played my Arp2600...those speakers took a beating let me tell you!!

Do not have much knowledge when it comes to synthesizers bullying them through amps though i do 'get', Its all about that crunch/relatively low-fidelity speakers (at least with dedicated guitar speakers) i would do it if i synthed You also have a few guitars though IIRC and bass guitars also? I am liking that FDM thing from the demo clips of the Eminance speakers, Seem to retain what is there but simply lower in volume (Although some fletcher munson'ing gives the impression of a little less mid-range when attenuated by more than a 1/4 of the dials travel...As said though not tried myself *yet* man. Oh the horrors i have done to some gear...The horror, I like it that way though

[Hink]

I've decided it's not going to be a bad cat. (yep, you heard me!)

-too expensive
-too hot (temp according to many)
-too hard to get
-besides, I'm not "bad cat" good enough

I really want a combo (preferably a 1x12) , but I want to use the hot plate (or sim) to make sure it's not going to get the cops called on me.

I do not want any digital fx but an fx loop would be a bonus (maybe)

I do not care what kind of built in verb it has (as long as there is something)

I'm not building it.

That's all I can think of for now........but I'm sure there will be more

seriously, go with a weber over a hotplate (not that hotplate isn't good) but you have to wait for it to be built. One of those quick 'in between' purchase for me will probably be another weber. I'm fortunate that the only footprint I have to worry about is floor space, I can go vertical at least three 4x12 cabs an one 2x12. There's a pawn shop nearby that often has cabs (even saw a 15" joes sound and salami there once). So if I get another cab I want another weber so I can use two amps...truth be told a I want a weber for every amp. The minimass is great for the small frenzel, not bad for the egnater but even on 1/2 power not so great with the boogie (though the minimass is rated at 50 watts)

I still think you should go with the frenzel pre and two watt power tube like I have. The cops wont get called but it will probably get you very close to the soldano you like in AT and the total cost (with shipping and the two watt power tube) will about 315 bux

http://www.frenzeltubeamps.com/page17.php

[trimph1]

@Dean...

My cab that I am currently toying with is an older one that I cobbled together some years ago using a pair of unknown Alnico 12" speakers....this thing was loud!! I used it with my somewhat cobbled together ham radio linear amp when I played my Arp2600...those speakers took a beating let me tell you!!

Do not have much knowledge when it comes to synthesizers bullying them through amps though i do 'get', Its all about that crunch/relatively low-fidelity speakers (at least with dedicated guitar speakers) i would do it if i synthed You also have a few guitars though IIRC and bass guitars also? I am liking that FDM thing from the demo clips of the Eminance speakers, Seem to retain what is there but simply lower in volume (Although some fletcher munson'ing gives the impression of a little less mid-range when attenuated by more than a 1/4 of the dials travel...As said though not tried myself *yet* man. Oh the horrors i have done to some gear...The horror, I like it that way though

Oh, I know about horrors!! The demo clips of those FDM things has me intrigued...I am seriously considering purchasing that set and seeing what happens if.... The mids I can sort of deal with by fiddling around with output on the Arp if need be... If it don't work it don't work...for the Arp..the guitars it will...if the speaker cones survive...

[susiwong]

@ Hink,
yes, G12L-35, 8 Ohms
These are the Park cabs, though mine look a bit different, exactly like real 1960s minus the piping, and they are mono like shown
http://www.blamepro.com/br01400.htm
Afaik the same speakers came in that small Valvestate 412.

@ Barry,
I'll certainly report, but it will take until end of the year at least, provided everything goes as planned

@ Dean,
expect lots of geeky discussions about these topics in the near future , microphones and preamps are an area where I have a lot to learn, first about theory, and then by doing my own hands-on experimentation.
I know the basics about construction, polar diagrams, wiring, how to read spec sheets, but buying a few mics (next year) that add something sensible to my tiny current collection is a different ballgame.
And then getting to know their quirks ...
At least, fine tuning level, pan and phase like you suggested, will be a breeze thanks to Bootsie's miraculous PreFix !

Cheers,
susiwong