Roland Cloud

[JJ_Jettflow]

I don't see how that applies to this situation and I am not interested in talking politics here. Roland Cloud is the ONLY sub service to offer you a free plug every 12 months of continuous payments. None of the others do this and Roland started the Loyalty Program because of consumer feedback. They are listening to the customer but they got very little in the way of positive comments for this; instead more trash talk and more complaints...Why is that do you think?

cause no matter how you dress it up, the subscription model sucks sucks sucks...

Another thing; it's not really a subscription model, it's a rent-to-own model. Same as Lennar Digital and Xfr's Serum but with one difference. With the Xfr and LD you pay $10 or 10 Euro a month, you get to use one synth and you pay until the price has been reached...both being over a year before ownership. With the Roland Cloud, you pay 12 months and get your synth BUT you get to use their complete catalog they have for that period of time as well giving you a chance to see what else comes out as well.

So let's stop calling it a subscription model since with real subscription models like Slate and Nugen Audio and Exponential Audio and Kush and EastWest or Pro Tools, they give you nothing for your subscription fees, no voucher, no discount towards ownership, etc... other than to continue to pay to use them.

[PAK]

They are listening to the customer but they got very little in the way of positive comments for this; instead more trash talk and more complaints...Why is that do you think?

Because some people don't want to rent. They'd rather save up, buy something, and not have to think about it again for as long as possible.

For others it's maybe a sense of ownership versus perpetual rental (and yes, I'm aware of the caveats about not really "owning" software etc).

For yet another it might be something more to juggle in an already crowded list of monthly bills. Something you have to account for. Bank overdrawn? Oh yeah, I forgot about that Roland Cloud sub.. That can be a genuine annoyance to someone.

Personally, outside of some "once in a while" Juno 106, the only plugin I'd actually maybe use is the D-50 right now. Sure, the theory is once they get more stuff on there (JD-800 onwards etc) people could justify it a bit more. But all I want to do is buy the D50 plugin for now and move on. I literally have little to no use for the other stuff.

What Roland could offer would be a "pay yearly" option, which gives a 10-15% discount over the monthly rental. That would then give you the "free" yearly plugin straight away (because you'd already paid in advance). If they really wanted to create a compromise of sorts that's probably the direction they should think about moving in. They get to claim you've subbed to their cloud for 1 year, you get to claim you bought the plugin outright.

[JJ_Jettflow]

They are listening to the customer but they got very little in the way of positive comments for this; instead more trash talk and more complaints...Why is that do you think?

Because some people don't want to rent. They'd rather save up, buy something, and not have to think about it again for as long as possible.

For others it's maybe a sense of ownership versus perpetual rental (and yes, I'm aware of the caveats about not really "owning" software etc).

For yet another it might be something more to juggle in an already crowded list of monthly bills. Something you have to account for. Bank overdrawn? Oh yeah, I forgot about that Roland Cloud sub.. That can be a genuine annoyance to someone.

Personally, outside of some "once in a while" Juno 106, the only plugin I'd actually maybe use is the D-50 right now. Sure, the theory is once they get more stuff on there (JD-800 onwards etc) people could justify it a bit more. But all I want to do is buy the D50 plugin for now and move on. I literally have little to no use for the other stuff.

What Roland could offer would be a "pay yearly" option, which gives a 10-15% discount over the monthly rental. That would then give you the "free" yearly plugin straight away (because you'd already paid in advance). If they really wanted to create a compromise of sorts that's probably the direction they should think about moving in. They get to claim you've subbed to their cloud for 1 year, you get to claim you bought the plugin outright.

I just answered this but just for you, I will repeat myself.

Another thing; it's not really a subscription model, it's a rent-to-own model. Same as Lennar Digital and Xfr's Serum but with one difference. With the Xfr and LD you pay $10 or 10 Euro a month, you get to use one synth and you pay until the price has been reached...both being over a year before ownership. With the Roland Cloud, you pay 12 months and get your synth BUT you get to use their complete catalog they have for that period of time as well giving you a chance to see what else comes out as well.

So let's stop calling it a subscription model since with real subscription models like Slate and Nugen Audio and Exponential Audio and Kush and EastWest or Pro Tools, they give you nothing for your subscription fees, no voucher, no discount towards ownership, etc... other than to continue to pay to use them.

[JJ_Jettflow]

They are listening to the customer but they got very little in the way of positive comments for this; instead more trash talk and more complaints...Why is that do you think?

Because some people don't want to rent. They'd rather save up, buy something, and not have to think about it again for as long as possible.

I honestly do not see the difference if I put $20 a month away for a year to buy the plug I want or give Roland $20 month for the year...oh yeah the difference is I get to use the plug the entire year I am saving for it.

[PAK]

I will repeat myself.

No need. Not everyone thinks the same, and regardless of how you try to frame it (rent to own etc) monthly payments are not what some people want.

I know people who've never had a mortgage. They rented, saved for years, and then bought a house with cash. Some people are simply more comfortable with that way of thinking. There's no "they're wrong" or "they're right" in it. It's about how you see the world, what's most convenient, and what makes you comfortable.

Like I said, all Roland have to do is offer an upfront yearly rental which comes with the "free" plugin straight away. This removes the "rent to own", and simply goes straight to the "own" part, but still allows them to play whatever games they have to in showing the cloud offering is a success etc.

So let's stop calling it a subscription model

But that's still what it is. Just because you get to own one of the plugins, at the end of it, doesn't change this. It just means it's got a nicer perk than most. These rental offerings are often designed more for businesses and institutions which benefit from predictable fixed monthly costs, rather than end users who tend to have different needs and assign a much lower value to something like a predictable ongoing cost, versus just buying something outright.

[PAK]

I honestly do not see the difference if I put $20 a month away for a year to buy the plug I want or give Roland $20 month for the year...oh yeah the difference is I get to use the plug the entire year I am saving for it.

The difference is that not everyone thinks the same way. Amazing, I know..

[braj]

In the 80s when I used to buy hardware synths, I would put money down every two weeks when I got paid for "layaway." At least with the Roland gear you get to use it right away and not just the one you want to buy. I guess you could get into a perpetual payment addiction thing but if you want those Roland plugins, I say it's worth it. Or you can get lower priced plugins from other vendors, I love Tal Uno 2 and am not sure that having an official Roland model of a Juno would really make me any more pleased. I think I will take them up on a free month service though. On Facebook, a Roland representative told me you can stop paying, and later renew and keep your "equity" I need to verify that but it seems like a good deal, as long as the plugins are worth $240 to me. I don't know that though, Diva is only $179. I'd prefer a Uhe subscription with these terms actually.

[pdxindy]

I don't see how that applies to this situation and I am not interested in talking politics here. Roland Cloud is the ONLY sub service to offer you a free plug every 12 months of continuous payments. None of the others do this and Roland started the Loyalty Program because of consumer feedback. They are listening to the customer but they got very little in the way of positive comments for this; instead more trash talk and more complaints...Why is that do you think?

cause no matter how you dress it up, the subscription model sucks sucks sucks...

That's just your personal opinion. And maybe you could expand on it more than it "sucks sucks sucks."

No need to expand... you already know the arguments, you just want to argue.

Subscription sucks and yes, it is a subscription model.

[pdxindy]

I honestly do not see the difference if I put $20 a month away for a year to buy the plug I want or give Roland $20 month for the year...oh yeah the difference is I get to use the plug the entire year I am saving for it.

If they charged $240 for one of these plugins people would laugh at them and say no f-in way. They are no where near the overall quality of other plugins that cost considerably less.

You can buy both The Legend and RePro-1/5 for a chunk less than just 1 Roland plugin.

The only way this appears to be a decent deal is because you get all of them to use (which masks the very high cost)... but then you will be paying $20+ (They can raise the price whenever they want) per month for the next 10 years. Which makes it, in effect, a subscription.

[jacqueslacouth]

If they charged $240 for one of these plugins people would laugh at them and say no f-in way. They are no where near the overall quality of other plugins that cost considerably less.

For example, I might choose to buy UVI Falcon for about the same money (at the moment) as opposed to...say....D50 in 12 months time...now does the Roland deal still seem so good?

[DeePho]

Roland Cloud is the ONLY sub service to offer you a free plug every 12 months of continuous payments. None of the others do this and Roland started the Loyalty Program because of consumer feedback. They are listening to the customer but they got very little in the way of positive comments for this; instead more trash talk and more complaints...Why is that do you think?

Even if we do not call it a subscription, it is not really better. You write of the other plugin providers, which give you nothing after a certain time, with a subscription. And why we are criticizing only rolandcloud ? Quite simply: The others give at least the choice to buy it immediately. As long as this is not offered at rolandcloud, it does not matter what rolandcloud makes for great offers, it will always complain. I do not mind if someone likes a subscription and wants to use it, but I personally would like to have the opportunity to buy it immediately.
And no, rolandcloud does not exactly quite listen to the users feedback, because if they really would, they would also just offer the purchase method. But do not do it, why? I think we all know the answer.
All other providers have both methods, but rolandcloud does not. And because I do not like this business model, I will not make a subscription or "rent-to-own".

[SLiC]

I may have missed this in all the debate, but does the plug In You own after 12 months become NFR and what is the Copy protection on the one you own (still weekly phone home).

I wonder if Roland have thought this through, if you are going to have some plug in becoming owned and therefore outside of the subscription model, why not just give us the option to buy them!

FYI before it went subscription the plug ins like Promars were selling for around 100 bucks, so a large part of what you pay (even if you assume it’s a r not to buy model on 1 plug in) is subscription.

[pdxindy]

I may have missed this in all the debate, but does the plug In You own after 12 months become NFR and what is the Copy protection on the one you own (still weekly phone home).

I wonder if Roland have thought this through, if you are going to have some plug in becoming owned and therefore outside of the subscription model, why not just give us the option to buy them!

FYI before it went subscription the plug ins like Promars were selling for around 100 bucks, so a large part of what you pay (even if you assume it’s a r not to buy model on 1 plug in) is subscription.

or 140% interest on the 'loan'

[JJ_Jettflow]

I will repeat myself.

No need. Not everyone thinks the same, and regardless of how you try to frame it (rent to own etc) monthly payments are not what some people want.

I know people who've never had a mortgage. They rented, saved for years, and then bought a house with cash. Some people are simply more comfortable with that way of thinking. There's no "they're wrong" or "they're right" in it. It's about how you see the world, what's most convenient, and what makes you comfortable.

Well if there is no wrong or right, then why all the constant complaining about the sub model. Don't like it? That's fine but then why continue to criticize and bash Roland, even when they are trying to make it more like what the customer is asking for?

[Ingonator]

I may have missed this in all the debate, but does the plug In You own after 12 months become NFR and what is the Copy protection on the one you own (still weekly phone home).

I wonder if Roland have thought this through, if you are going to have some plug in becoming owned and therefore outside of the subscription model, why not just give us the option to buy them!

Details about the Roland Cloud YOURS loyalty program are found here:
https://www.rolandcloud.com/read-more/y ... ty-program

https://www.rolandcloud.com/faq

FWIW if you used the free 30 days trial this seems to count for the 12 months too so to own a plugin you actiually have to pay for 11 months, not 12.

As with the free trial i currently collected 5 months at the moment i do not know if this will work like promised or not. I would have to complete the 12 months first.
FWIW here in Germany the credit card is charged using the current USD/Euro conversion rate without extra fees or taxes.