CLAP... thoughts?

[PieBerger]

You don't think calling either Alexandre or Urs hobbyists is a step too far?
rsp

anything to get a rise out of someone here...

[Urs]

(though I think SB revoked the concerning part about vst2 use for current vst2 licensees, but indeed to keep developing on dead vst2 doesn't make much sense)

Here's how I see it:

The original provision that signing the contract would void "the other contract" was sneaked in without a word on the website, press releases, developer forums or simply anything, even though the impact is *massive* for some (Reason Studio? Over. NKS? Killed.). It just quietly happened, no notice given, and probably some people signed that thing without noticing.

The reversal was sneaked in a month or two later, without a word on the website, press releases, developer forums or simply anything. It just quietly happened, no notice given. Only, before it happened one employee (who had mischaracterised the clause in question before) in one forum suggested there would be a six months or so "extended" period. A year later, none of latter has happened, so I guess it was mischaracterised again.

What to make of it? - There is only one conclusion to be drawn from this. There no information to rely upon. The "standard" that thousands of companies rely on is in a state of legal flux, without any reliable communication in respect to whatever it's going to be, or when.

In that situation, the most recent contracts for "the new standard" still have a unilateral clause for cancellation with no reason given ("good cause " - haha, by whose definition?), and possibly effective immediate. Absolutely nobody in their right mind is going to sign this.

This situation is unprofessional and unbearable. Responsible and reliable business partners act differently - not just in the music software industry where things are commonly friendly anyway.

[donkey tugger]

You don't think calling either Alexandre or Urs hobbyists is a step too far?
rsp

anything to get a rise out of someone here...

It's about time they stopped arseing about with sinthesisers and stuff and got proper jobs, like in the Civil Service.

[Urs]

I *am* a hobbyist! Among other things, I guess.

[ghettosynth]

I *am* a hobbyist!

I am the blobbyist.

Also, to be on topic....

[ghettosynth]

[parma]

The original provision that signing the contract would void "the other contract" was sneaked in without a word on the website, press releases, developer forums or simply anything, even though the impact is *massive* for some (Reason Studio? Over. NKS? Killed.). It just quietly happened, no notice given, and probably some people signed that thing without noticing.

Urs, what do you mean by "Reason Studios? Over."? Like, over over? And why?

[EvilDragon]

It was a hypothetical situation, where in which if Steinberg actually went with retroactively killing VST2 licenses by making developers sign an updated VST3 license, those developers would be forced to remove any and all VST2 code from their products. So NKS wouldn't work for NI anymore (since it's coupled to VST2), and Reason would be forced to stop being a VST2 host (which is what people waited for decade+).

[parma]

It was a hypothetical situation, where in which if Steinberg actually went with retroactively killing VST2 licenses by making developers sign an updated VST3 license, those developers would be forced to remove any and all VST2 code from their products. So NKS wouldn't work for NI anymore (since it's coupled to VST2), and Reason would be forced to stop being a VST2 host (which is what people waited for decade+).

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification!

[10bd01]

which doesn't really effect you, unless you are sat around waiting specifically for "new thing" rather than using all the stuff you already have. in which case, i would suggest clap is not the problem.

Not true. No need to imply other people are having a problem when it's blatantly obvious you're having one - adding development and testing time to a team can affect bug fixes, updates, ticket response time, etc. It's pretty simple. The negativity here - in the best cases - has been well explained, so I'm not sure why you're having such a problem understanding it.

If someone believes the premise that this will create a significant workload for developers it's not unreasonable at all to be concerned with how that would affect them. If these companies were adopting an additional 10 formats do you think they'd be able to magically do this without it affecting any customer-touching aspect of their business? 100? Ridiculous and thoughtless perspective if the premise is accepted. Maybe one additional format is doable without much effort; I don't have enough plugin programming experience to know myself. I doubt you do.

I would suggest you have a problem - the negativity has been clearly explained a number of times and you can't appear to comprehend it. Sounds like a reading comprehension problem, I would suggest getting that checked out.

[10bd01]

I think this is absolutely fantastic. The name...I agree with others - "the clap" is slang for chlamydia where I'm from. It was the very first thing I thought of when I saw the name, thanks to years of indoctrination in high school .

[MirkoVanHauten]

Running in circles... One side complains and the other side of actual devs tells otherwise. Anyways, if someone can create a CLAP plugin in a 3 hour twitch stream and has fun, or another devs tells me adapting it sounds like "a weekend job", I'm highly confident in this standard, even if its only used as internal intermediate format to reduce development overhead.

[10bd01]

Running in circles... One side complains and the other side of actual devs tells otherwise. Anyways, if someone can create a CLAP plugin in a 3 hour twitch stream and has fun, or another devs tells me adapting it sounds like "a weekend job", I'm highly confident in this standard, even if its only used as internal intermediate format to reduce development overhead.

Is this how it plays out in practice when you have a catalog of 75 plugins? I'm not asking facetiously - it's one thing to sit down with something for a few hours and crank out a working, very basic implementation, it can be quite something else to implement it in a production environment with legacy code/systems.

[jamcat]

You don't think calling either Alexandre or Urs hobbyists is a step too far?

I was responding to Funkybot. That was the word he used.

My guess is that they have to be thinking AAX adoption is a bit slow too and feel like they're bleeding marketshare to other hosts/formats in the hobbyist end of the market. CLAP being successful, and Pro Tools supporting it, would make a lot of sense for them.

[pdxindy]

Is this how it plays out in practice when you have a catalog of 75 plugins? I'm not asking facetiously - it's one thing to sit down with something for a few hours and crank out a working, very basic implementation, it can be quite something else to implement it in a production environment with legacy code/systems.

Lots of developers have used VST2 for their development framework. They then use a wrapper to make a VST3, AU, AAX, etc. from the VST2.

Since Steinberg appears to be determined to get rid of VST2, those developers have to move their codebase to another framework anyway. That is the situation with u-he for example.

Developers are not just going, hey, let's spend a bunch of time switching from one to the other for the hell of it. No, many feel like they have to because they cannot depend on what they had previously been doing. That is why there is a lot of interest in CLAP at the moment.

And if CLAP is well designed and makes that transition easier than some other option, then it ends up as less work since a move is needed anyway. It is a bonus that CLAP offers cool functionality that VST doesn't.