Mark Mothersbaugh on Classic Hardware vs Software Emulations

[IvyBirds]

The oracle has spoken

Thanks, for agreeing with me.

I didn't.

​You literally called me an Oracle. If you didn't mean it, don't use big words you don't understand just to look smart.

Calling you something doesn't mean I agree with you. Which part of that do you not understand?

Thinking a six letter word is a 'big word' explains why you have trouble with comprehension.

Which part of 'you used the word' do you not understand? The irony of you trying to lecture anyone on comprehension while throwing a literal temper tantrum over your own vocabulary choice is beautiful. Keep typing, though

Anyway you seem incredibly stressed about this. I'd offer to explain it to you, but we both know you'd struggle with the follow-up

[IvyBirds]

BoF could play the same venues and festivals that Thievery Corporation regularly do, except the hype behind them playing another show and touring would cause folks to pull out their credit cards right then and there,and it would sell out fast. FOMO sells.

And those tickets would not be cheap. Hence, BANK.

Nope not even close to bank

[IvyBirds]

People pay for concert tickets to hear live music not prerecorded tracks being played by bands who pretend it's live. By your logic why have a band at all? Why not just have a a guy play the record straight through on the stage. Just walk out and hit play on a CD player and walk off. How many tickets do you think that would sell and at what price?

This is how a lot of modern / soundcloud rappers perform. They will rap right over their ummmm.. CD's. (What year is Ivy stuck in?)

A lot of people pay. They sing along. It's like a big communal event.

Never said they didn't doesn't it make it right however

Still shocking to see musicians on a forum for musicians advocating for the idea that musicians are not needed

This is irrelevant, as you know that someone rapping is a musician. Why are you being so obstinate about this? People go to see shows. No one cares if the musicians are playing live, lip syncing to tracks, or triggering sequences. They want a social experience. The performer is there to enhance this, but they are not really the focus, even though they seem to be. Hell, I've seen guys spinning CDs of other people's music get praise from audience members. I've seen lame performances of great music by people who were clearly not into it (David Byrne) and great performances of music that I didn't like by people who were into it, yet were singing along to backing tracks. (Big Bam Boo) I once performed with a friend and they stuck us up behind a dj booth on a mezzanine and no one could see us. We did a full 40 minute set and only when we were relieved by the DJ did anyone know the music was live. No one cared, though a few friends who knew I was up there playing did say they liked it and it went over well.

Are you lost? This is a forum for musicians, not tone-deaf casuals who get easily distracted by shiny lights at a pop concert. The fact that you can’t comprehend the difference between a discussion on artistic integrity among players and what the general public accepts explains why you’re screaming into the void right now.

Imagine coming onto a musician forum to argue that musicians playing music doesn't matter. Obviously the general public doesn't care—they'll clap for a DJ playing records. I was addressing musicians about musicianship. Which part of that distinction was too complex for you to grasp?

Next time you want to argue that a certain plugin doesn't have MPE remember that the general public doesn't care so you shouldn't either

[Karbon L. Forms]

The oracle has spoken

Thanks, for agreeing with me.

I didn't.

​You literally called me an Oracle. If you didn't mean it, don't use big words you don't understand just to look smart.

Calling you something doesn't mean I agree with you. Which part of that do you not understand?

Thinking a six letter word is a 'big word' explains why you have trouble with comprehension.

Which part of 'you used the word' do you not understand? The irony of you trying to lecture anyone on comprehension while throwing a literal temper tantrum over your own vocabulary choice is beautiful. Keep typing, though

Anyway you seem incredibly stressed about this. I'd offer to explain it to you, but we both know you'd struggle with the follow-up

This is funny as f**k. The madonna covering church going American fails at detecting sarcasm then bangs on about comprehension?! Zero self-awareness.

[IvyBirds]

Thanks, for agreeing with me.

I didn't.

​You literally called me an Oracle. If you didn't mean it, don't use big words you don't understand just to look smart.

Calling you something doesn't mean I agree with you. Which part of that do you not understand?

Thinking a six letter word is a 'big word' explains why you have trouble with comprehension.

Which part of 'you used the word' do you not understand? The irony of you trying to lecture anyone on comprehension while throwing a literal temper tantrum over your own vocabulary choice is beautiful. Keep typing, though

Anyway you seem incredibly stressed about this. I'd offer to explain it to you, but we both know you'd struggle with the follow-up

This is funny as f**k. The madonna covering church going American fails at detecting sarcasm then bangs on about comprehension?! Zero self-awareness.

I wasn't talking to you, but thanks for letting everyone know how desperately you crave my attention

[Seafire Mk2]

The oracle has spoken

Thanks, for agreeing with me.

I didn't.

​You literally called me an Oracle. If you didn't mean it, don't use big words you don't understand just to look smart.

Calling you something doesn't mean I agree with you. Which part of that do you not understand?

Thinking a six letter word is a 'big word' explains why you have trouble with comprehension.

Which part of 'you used the word' do you not understand?

All of it, because you didn't say that.

If you have trouble remembering what you have written, even if it's there in front on you, it's probably best to sit this out.

[BONES]

Barring of course the larger acts, EBM and Goth Industrial is far more profitable in DJ nights than live event nights. It's not easy drumming up interest locally in your band, but everyone will bounce to the club to hear Headhunter on a PA for the millionth time.

That will depend where you live and it has not been my experience. There haven't even been any regular Goth or EBM/Industrial clubs in Sydney for 20+ years. Of course in Europe it seems relatively easy to tour those styles live (no idea bout the club scene over there, though).

Yep, it happens, and Trent Reznor has the roadies to do that too. You get my point though.

I absolutely get your point on a personal level, I'll never use a hardware synth on stage again, but the world is full of crazy people.

I saw Imminent Starvation years ago with just a laptop onstage and it was great, that sort of barrage is meant for large speakers.

What did they do on stage? I've seen a band called Nasenbluten a couple of times, in the days before laptops, and they were f**king useless on stage, pretty much completely hidden by their massive CRT monitors. If you're only going to use laptops, you need to have a visual focus on stage or you may as well just leave it to a DJ to play your stuff and stay at home.

Plus I would argue that you are musicians, just not musicians that are technically proficient on a traditional instrument. I'll die on this hill though, technical proficiency is less important than creative impact when it comes to art, including music.

You'll get no argument from me, I just don't want to be associated with some of the absolute f**king wankers around here who think of themselves as "musicians" because they spent 10,000 hours practicing scales.

Where I bounce back over to the traditional musician side though is people are obvious bereft of creativity in terms of writing and some of that is how easy it is to get into these days. I'm glad anybody can grab a laptop and copy of FL Studio and throw out a song, but so much of is it mind numbingly dull, the loop library and AI world is going to make standing out easier in a way, because too much of it all sounds dull.

What gets me about a lot of those numbnuts is that they are so bereft of any feeling for music that they can't even hear how shockingly awful their shit is. I think we were probably really lucky to have come through at a time when it wasn't so easy to get stuff out there and you'd have a few years of effort under your belt before you ever got any real exposure. I think I got my live shows happening pretty easily once I started but by then I'd been writing and recording things to 4-track for more than 4 years. I reckon is was another 10 years before I ever did anything in the studio that I was happy with and comfortable sharing with the world. Interestingly, though, I look back on my early stuff now and I think it's a lot better than I gave it credit for at the time. Still, I am happy to have been my own harshest critic back then, it made me work much harder to get shit right.

This is irrelevant, as you know that someone rapping is a musician.

How do you figure that? Vocalists don't have to be musicians, vocalists who don't even sing less so.

Why are you being so obstinate about this? People go to see shows. No one cares if the musicians are playing live, lip syncing to tracks, or triggering sequences. They want a social experience. The performer is there to enhance this, but they are not really the focus, even though they seem to be.

Maybe for your cover bands but that's not true for everyone or in all situations. Sure, there will always be an element within the crowd who are just there to be seen, especially if you're catering to a "scene", but I think the whole difference between a band/artist and a DJ is that people come to see your band to see/hear what you, the artist, want to show them, whereas a DJ is there to play what the audience came to hear. i.e. In a live show, the artist determines what gets played, in a club the audience gets to decide, so people tend go to see a band to see the band, not to be seen seeing the band. Of course, when you're successful you end up being obliged to play certain things that you know the audience is there to hear but, fortunately for us, nobody seems to give a shit what we play, as long as its fast and loud, so we get to decide.

Are you lost? This is a forum for musicians, not tone-deaf casuals who get easily distracted by shiny lights at a pop concert.

It sounds like you're the one who is lost. This is a forum for people who make music with computer software. Musicians may form a sub-set of that cohort but five minutes looking over this place will make it abundantly clear that musicians are in the minority here.

The fact that you can’t comprehend the difference between a discussion on artistic integrity among players and what the general public accepts explains why you’re screaming into the void right now.

Yep, definitely lost. This is a discussion on how deluded anyone who thinks that software hasn't completely caught up to even classic analogue hardware is either missing the point or seriously deluded.

Imagine coming onto a musician forum to argue that musicians playing music doesn't matter.

I can't imagine coming onto a musician's forum at all. I don't even know where on a musician his or her "forum" is and I have not the slightest desire to spill my seed all over one. The very thought is appalling. (Oh, yes, I went there.)

[El°HYM]

[Seafire Mk2]

This is a forum for musicians

Where does it say that?

[TechHaus]

I like this era of Portishead:


Portishead - Machine Gun Live in Berlin



Portishead - Chase The Tear

[VOODOO U]

Actually, if you play those things live then your local performing right body will get some money to the publishers of the songs, so the original artists will get their cut.

Yeah good luck getting the Jones family next door to pay a performance rights licensing fee to cover royalties. Private parties, weddings aren't large scale enough to require any licensing for cover songs performances.
Yet add up all these weddings and private parties paying cover bands across the U.S. and now we're talking lots of unpaid royalties to songwriters.
There are no laws being broken but that doesn't negate the fact that other peoples' works are being used for profit and are not getting compensated.
Personally I feel it's the cover bands who should be paying the licensing fees, not the venues. It's the venues responsibility to make sure the band is covered before allowing any performances.
This also covers the band to.perform anywhere and get royalties paid to the songwriters.

[machinesworking]

I kinda love that a wind up monkey with no ability to read sarcasm is arguing with people that it's much better to use wind up monkeys to play back other peoples music, rather than the creator DJing his own music.

[TechHaus]

I've seen Caribou dj and with a band. Both worth the $$. Neither a lesser experience.

I think maybe 50-75% of the songs in the dj sets were his.

[zerocrossing]

People pay for concert tickets to hear live music not prerecorded tracks being played by bands who pretend it's live. By your logic why have a band at all? Why not just have a a guy play the record straight through on the stage. Just walk out and hit play on a CD player and walk off. How many tickets do you think that would sell and at what price?

This is how a lot of modern / soundcloud rappers perform. They will rap right over their ummmm.. CD's. (What year is Ivy stuck in?)

A lot of people pay. They sing along. It's like a big communal event.

Never said they didn't doesn't it make it right however

Still shocking to see musicians on a forum for musicians advocating for the idea that musicians are not needed

This is irrelevant, as you know that someone rapping is a musician. Why are you being so obstinate about this? People go to see shows. No one cares if the musicians are playing live, lip syncing to tracks, or triggering sequences. They want a social experience. The performer is there to enhance this, but they are not really the focus, even though they seem to be. Hell, I've seen guys spinning CDs of other people's music get praise from audience members. I've seen lame performances of great music by people who were clearly not into it (David Byrne) and great performances of music that I didn't like by people who were into it, yet were singing along to backing tracks. (Big Bam Boo) I once performed with a friend and they stuck us up behind a dj booth on a mezzanine and no one could see us. We did a full 40 minute set and only when we were relieved by the DJ did anyone know the music was live. No one cared, though a few friends who knew I was up there playing did say they liked it and it went over well.

Are you lost? This is a forum for musicians, not tone-deaf casuals who get easily distracted by shiny lights at a pop concert. The fact that you can’t comprehend the difference between a discussion on artistic integrity among players and what the general public accepts explains why you’re screaming into the void right now.

Imagine coming onto a musician forum to argue that musicians playing music doesn't matter. Obviously the general public doesn't care—they'll clap for a DJ playing records. I was addressing musicians about musicianship. Which part of that distinction was too complex for you to grasp?

Next time you want to argue that a certain plugin doesn't have MPE remember that the general public doesn't care so you shouldn't either

I’m discussing the topic that this stupid thread has veered off to. What you or I do has zero to do with “integrity.” My point is, we all do what we do for ourselves. Don’t be a pompous ass and pretend that you’re doing it for some imaginary audience that demands authenticity. I ask for MPE for my own personal enjoyment, not for the handful of nerds that will be impressed by my Roli Rise.

Here’s what actual integrity looks like. I used to do a show where I triggered media clips with a midi guitar. Because the motion was so small, no one could tell I was actually performing the visuals. I ended up switching to a sequencer, because it made the audience experience much better. Considering the experience of the audience over some pompous self aggrandizement for some misguided ideas of integrity is actually the opposite of integrity.

At the risk of going back to the topic, I’d say that dragging the V Collection via a laptop to a pop music show has more integrity than dragging out an ancient Memorymoog that is prone to tuning issues and limitations. Though that depends entirely upon what experience you’re trying to achieve for your audience. I like to provide as wide a range of sounds as possible, so I’d make that choice because I know any additional sonic authenticity is destroyed via the PA. If I was doing an experimental noise show, I’d probably bring out a hardware synthesizer, because the extreme style of sounds that use feedback and distortion do benefit from certain hardware synthesizers. Similarly, I always used a sequencer when doing my ambient looping shows, because even though I was playing guitars and synth parts by hand, there were also rhythmic parts that needed tight sync to the audio loops to sound the way I wanted them to. Only one person in my entire life ever commented on the sequences. She also started talking to my partner, mid performance, who was triggering bits of audio from a laptop that he grabbed from movies and TV, similarly to what a Boards of Canada or actually more like what Negativeland does. She seemed like an angry asshole who was set on dismissing anything that wasn’t made in a manner that she approved. I grabbed a mic, and recorded me asking her what she thought of sampling technology and her response and fed it into the loop. She got very flustered and stormed off, which made for some great music.