VOTE Katrina Relief Donations

[Meffy]

freeztar: Thanks! Lots of data but it lacks one thing the Consumer's Union study had -- an easily accessible article explaining the numbers and how they relate to the real-world business of charitable relief. I'm also a little leery of Forbes in general terms, but I don't doubt their accuracy when it comes to numbers of this kind. It looks to be an excellent data source and I'll bookmark it. (Much bigger set of charities than the CU had, too.)

P.S.: "Gifts In Kind" looks to be about as effective as it's possible to be! One hundred percents across the board... impressive... guess that's the nature of the way they do things.

Here's the link again, this time to a page with quick explanations of what the numbers mean:

http://www.forbes.com/2004/11/23/04charityland.html

[TristezaOrange]

I voted for the Salvation Army, since they seem to be effective, but dude, this is f**ked up:

We believe in the immortality of the soul, the resurrection of the body, in the general judgement at the end of the world, in the eternal happiness of the righteous, and in the endless punishment of the wicked.



As well as some other stuff...

[freeztar]

Direct Relief International looks pretty good.

[Sicklecell666]

Salvation Army definitely.

Red Cross has serious problems with getting the money to the people it's intended for.

We donated big to them for the 911 fund and it pracitcally took an act of Congress for the actual victims to get a dime. Never again.

Jeff

Who'd have thought that me and this shithead would have ever agreed on something..?

[Sicklecell666]

I voted for the Salvation Army, since they seem to be effective, but dude, this is f**ked up:

We believe in the immortality of the soul, the resurrection of the body, in the general judgement at the end of the world, in the eternal happiness of the righteous, and in the endless punishment of the wicked.



As well as some other stuff...

Have you ever done community service at a Salvation Army shop?

I wouldn't worry about none of that..

[AllenPOPO]

I vote salvation army...i know red cross may be most relevant, but i remember reading somewhere that they hold a lot of money...

(sorry i dont have a link to back this up)

but whatever is the majority im cool with.

Allen

[kovacs]

I don't know how the salvation army practices around the world, but I know that about ten years ago there was a major flood here in Norway and I volunteered to spend a week in the disaster area, getting people into safety, carrying sandbags all over the place (man, they're *heavy*!), sleeping in gyms that were technically under the water surface so water could poor in anytime...

...and every single day the Salvation Army was there with their bus, serving us dinner, coffee, etc, talking to us, and in general being the kinds of angels you need at a time like that.

I am an atheist. Not once did they ask me to pray before I got some food. That is the important thing about the SA - they help everyone.

I think if we look into the ethical values of some of the companies who make, say, musical instruments we'll find a lot of things we don't like. The SA is no different. Nor the Red Cross.

I was there as a Red Cross volunteer (I am not a member, just got to carry one of them cool reflex vests with a RC on it) and I obviously have nothing against them either.

I think it's sad to point to their doctrines, when the Salvation Army is an incredible important organization and very worthy of our money. I think there are a lot of people (Americans, mostly) who do NOT like the Red Cross and would rather donate their money to their local gas station...

Suffice it to say that no matter what charity the money goes to, I'll still do what it takes to get things sold at my end.

[kovacs]

Apologies to Hovmod - did not mean to pick at you above, it came out wrong. Sorry. Will edit.

[IIRs]

Religious bigotry has caused far more misery than Katrina over the years. The SA's religious beliefs offend me too deeply for me to consider supporting the organisation. I will not allow my empathy for the victims of this disaster to be exploited by those who wish to oppress minorities..

[Meffy]

Having read the latest in the "Musicians for Katrina Relief" thread, I feel my position (and that of several others) is being misrepresented and distorted. Without pointing any fingers, I want to set the record straight -- for myself at least. Others' views on these issues will of course differ from mine.

1) I have no objection whatever to religious-based charities simply based on their religious basis.

2) I DO object strenuously to charities with a history of actively discriminating against those who do not share their extremist religious positions.

3) I DO object strenuously to charities that plot in secret with officials at the highest levels of government to circumvent anti-discrimination laws.

4) I would be just as opposed to giving to an "atheist-based" organization (if such a thing exists; wouldn't "secular-based" be more accurate?) that practiced discrimination against non-atheists as I am against religious organizations that practice discrimination against those who practice other religions or no religion at all.

5) I have never claimed that the Salvation Army's discriminatory practices involve failure to provide aid, but active and pervasive discrimination against employees and would-be employees.

6) I will be foregoing much-needed (but expensive) health care for myself and donating every penny left over after bills to charitable organizations that do not make a habit of practicing bigotry.

If anyone chooses to represent these convictions as evidence that I am "anti-Christian," I will state clearly that it would be an outright lie. I am anti-bigotry, and refuse to accept that speaking against bigotry is somehow equivalent to discriminating against bigots.

I will gladly and actively support the KVR relief effort if the proceeds do not go to an organization that continues to engage in systematic discrimination against me and many of my friends. Even if proceeds are turned over to such an organization I will applaud the good intentions of the organizers, contributors, and buyers -- but I will not in good conscience be able to join in.

That's my final word on this aspect of the subject.

[Guitarjeff]

Religious bigotry has caused far more misery than Katrina over the years. The SA's religious beliefs offend me too deeply for me to consider supporting the organisation. I will not allow my empathy for the victims of this disaster to be exploited by those who wish to oppress minorities..

Of course your signature has nothing to do with "Religious bigotry" right?

[griels]

6) I will be foregoing much-needed (but expensive) health care for myself and donating every penny left over after bills to charitable organizations that do not make a habit of practicing bigotry.

Wow.. That's an amazing gesture Meffy I'm not sure I can condone it but I would still have huge respect for such a sacrifice... Actions speak louder than words I guess.

Respect also for the rest of your statement.. And glad to see you around again

P.S. I voted for Musicians of New Orleans, going on the horror stories about the others... But I'll respect whatever choice is made.

[Meffy]

Thanks. I regret sounding so vehement, but my feelings on this are pretty strong. As for the medical thing, it's probably an exercise in futility anyway and I'm willing to deal with the consequences for another month, maybe longer. After all, other people have it worse than I.

Anyway, no more from me on the topic at hand. I've had my say, and will respect the consensus. Whatever the outcome, the cause is righteous and I'm deeply moved by the good-heartedness of those who are musician enough to contribute their music to the effort.

[AllenPOPO]

I think its important that the organizers who have been putting the legwork into this project ultimately make the decision as to whom the money should go to, whether it be by majority vote or divine intervention or whatever..

if red cross is it, then so be it....if musicians of NO is it so be it....

we just need to HELP! i know this might sound like a broken record but its important that we pick a charity, stick with it and move quickly on to focus generation of sales..we could argue about this for weeks, and no good would come of it...lets get the ball rolling...if someone doesnt like the decision, they can keep their track or leave it if they dont care. it should be THAT simple.

**on another note, i think we should pick which one will do the most good from what we're doing, versus which charity is 'best'

that is all

-Allen

(and when i mean ball rolling, i mean on picking the charity...everything else is moving swiftly and is very admirable...great stuff guys!)

[IIRs]

Of course your signature has nothing to do with "Religious bigotry" right?

It has everything to do with it. You saying I'm a bigot?

bigot

n : a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own

In my opinion, anyone who believes in god is choosing not to think, and does not deserve to benefit from any of the advances made by science over the last few hundred years.. You can disagree, but if you object to me expressing my view then you are the bigot not I.