KVR Audio

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:34 pm

drinelli wrote:
drinelli wrote:
HiHi , sorry, I am laughin so much I can`t write. just a moment HiHi

Can you post a sample? Laughing
Of the laughs, no I am too lazy, or do you mean of the Plate 140

Of the laughing - I thought it might be infectious...but if you have a sample of a plate that would be cool too!

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:36 pm

kylen wrote: I like vocals, drums and full mixes! Thanks - whatever you have will be fine I'm sure!

Ok, I'll get to it.. check PM in a couple of hours as I can't post some of the files here publicly.

Cheers!
bManic

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:38 pm

bmanic wrote:
kylen wrote: I like vocals, drums and full mixes! Thanks - whatever you have will be fine I'm sure!
Ok, I'll get to it.. check PM in a couple of hours as I can't post some of the files here publicly.

Cheers!
bManic

Way Cool!

drinelli · Post by **drinelli** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:43 pm

Sorry I simply can not follow the tempo of this topic, I have 7-8 notifications in my mail box, and my focus went out the window. So If I can be excused, I will take a break for tonight.

ddummer · Post by **ddummer** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 8:55 pm

If somebody could explain in artistic,emotionalmanners
just HOW a compressor/limiter is supposed to sound
it would be lots easier to get good results.

Often people have an attitude like "well you as a developer should know these things so why do you ask?".

A LA2A is not THAT complicated to figure out but
as I read somewhere it is not about capturing the
attack and release curves.. it is about getting
the soul in there too and that one can only be
explained in non-linear terms.

Like when they tried to mesure out why Jeff Porcaro
sounded so good on drums by analyzing the strokes...
You can make it LOOK like him as midi notes but
you would still not get the feeling.

In my opinion developers with high skills lacks
the skills of adding natural "garbage" into their
algos where everything would come off too clean
and... well it would lack soul....

Same thing with a skilled musician. If he follow
all the given rules,he would always sound right
but also he would sound predictable and slightly
boring. You need to throw in some wild emotions
now and then to get stuff to fly.

Perhaps the new breed is the game developers.
The have lots of AI stuff in their games where
the game grows by itself. Imagine this in audio
plugins.

//Daniel

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:14 pm

drinelli wrote:Sorry I simply can not follow the tempo of this topic, I have 7-8 notifications in my mail box, and my focus went out the window. So If I can be excused, I will take a break for tonight.

OK - you are sent to your room!

Silent Mind 2005 · Post by **Silent Mind 2005** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:17 pm

I think the problem really is, or atleast used to be, developers of digital emulations of analog gear, mostly looked at the theory of the analog gear, and duplicated that, without considering how it actually worked in practise.

AFAIK, there is no fixed rules on how a compressor should sound. It's pretty much up to your ears. Which is what I did with mine.

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:31 pm

ddummer wrote:If somebody could explain in artistic,emotionalmanners
just HOW a compressor/limiter is supposed to sound
it would be lots easier to get good results...
Perhaps the new breed is the game developers.
The have lots of AI stuff in their games where
the game grows by itself. Imagine this in audio
plugins.

//Daniel

Now that is interesting, along with your other comments of course. A little while ago (I think it was the PSP MasterComp thread) there was a little battle between folks who wanted to describe the results of compression sounds in terms of punch, pump, fluffy, oomph, leveling, etc. Then there were the folks who tend to describe the action of the compressor itself and not necessarily the sound - fast, slow, peak limiting, deep compression, etc. I didn't think of it that way till you just mentioned it.

But the AI piece - you're referring to something learned by the dsp processor that includes input from both the operator (or developer) and the program material? We have some compressors that can be adaptive with the program material - and of course the developer who designed the algorithm has trained the processor to see things their way. I'm probably going off on a tangent to what you meant but I wonder how cool it would be to have an open processor - a compressor for example where I could assign a Voxengo detector, a Kjaerhus attack module and a TLs release or saturator...and then go crazy!

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:32 pm

Isn't UAD simply a board with DSP ( processors ) on it? I mean if the same algo that those DSP run now on the UAD would be "ported" to an x86, it should in theory sound the same ( albeit slower/faster ) if the precision of the CPU is the same.

drinelli · Post by **drinelli** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:44 pm

drinelli wrote:
Sorry I simply can not follow the tempo of this topic, I have 7-8 notifications in my mail box, and my focus went out the window. So If I can be excused, I will take a break for tonight.

OK - you are sent to your room! Razz

, I am not that young though. And I am back, Plate 140 was in my Powered Plugs folder, It was a demo as I said and I had not activated it. So I did, the one major difference there is to Artsacoustic Reverb, is it is denser, darker but not at the same time as versatile as AAR. I think of them as equal in my opinion, but then again, P140 won`t Scratch my CPU, but would it scratch a hole in my wallet

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:44 pm

A3ntar wrote:Isn't UAD simply a board with DSP ( processors ) on it? I mean if the same algo that those DSP run now on the UAD would be "ported" to an x86, it should in theory sound the same ( albeit slower/faster ) if the precision of the CPU is the same.

My take on the UAD board (without owning one) is that it is simply a pcb with a cpu, memory, and busses doing the same thing my DAW does...executing instructions out of the instruction set to process data.

A3ntar · Post by **A3ntar** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:50 pm

Exactly. I mean, if you do a 1 + 1 on a mathematical enabled CPU, or nLog n you should always end up with the same result. The one thing that might differ is the way the dedicated CPU and compiler optimises the code so it runs faster.

So what I think differs is the quality of the algorithm themselves, not the quality of the hardware.

kylen wrote:
A3ntar wrote:Isn't UAD simply a board with DSP ( processors ) on it? I mean if the same algo that those DSP run now on the UAD would be "ported" to an x86, it should in theory sound the same ( albeit slower/faster ) if the precision of the CPU is the same.
My take on the UAD board (without owning one) is that it is simply a pcb with a cpu, memory, and busses doing the same thing my DAW does...executing instructions out of the instruction set to process data.

JeffSanders · Post by **JeffSanders** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:51 pm

bManic pretty much said it all when he described why the UAD-1 plugs are so good. The hardware 1176, LA2A, Fairchild, Pultec and Plate 140 are legendary.

They're all over practically every classic album there is. And people who own the hardware swear that they sound accurate - (the 1176 plug is supposed to even sound better than the hardware!).

And imho there are no native verbs that can touch the Plate 140, except for the Wizooverb.

I wondered why they were the only ones to emulate the compressors so well. And it makes sense when you realize how the two brothers found their father's notebook with all the original schematics ( http://uaudio.com/company/index.html ). The secrets are in these docs.

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:57 pm

Silent Mind 2005 wrote:I think the problem really is, or atleast used to be, developers of digital emulations of analog gear, mostly looked at the theory of the analog gear, and duplicated that, without considering how it actually worked in practise.

AFAIK, there is no fixed rules on how a compressor should sound. It's pretty much up to your ears. Which is what I did with mine.

True that - there are tons of transfer curves and oscilloscope pictures showing the performance of a piece of vintage gear. That surely doesn't give a clue as to the character of its' sound though, does it. Like how do you take a picture of a compressor sounding spongy or pumping (I guess pumping could be a short video - haha).

Modeling the components seemes like a good place to start which some folks have done in their opto and vari-mu models. I guess I'll know we're there when I have to replace the output driver on my VST compressor because it burned out!

drinelli · Post by **drinelli** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:00 pm

And imho there are no native verbs that can touch the Plate 140, except for the Wizooverb M2.

I agree, except For the name W2 not M2, but looks who is talking ,

But ArtsAcoustic Reverb comes extreemly close.

UAD digital plugins vs KVR developers brightest minds!