Is it bad to constantly retune a guitar to different tunings

[Hink]

I just got sucked in to the Transperformance guitar site - pity that there is not a drool or lust icon.

I use 4 or 5 different tunings on acoustic guitar and have never had any serious problems with the the strings or guitar intonation.

Neil told me a couple years ago a lite version was on the way...but no sign yet

[Patrick9]

Neil told me a couple years ago a lite version was on the way...but no sign yet

Well - if you hear anything, give us a heads up.

[AndrewSimon]

To Hink, in response to saying that using different tunings will not affect the intonation, have you checked that with a strobe tuner?

Don't start with the strobe tuner, nothing in life is perfect, especially guitars.

If you use strobe 0.1 cent accuracy you will find out that simply laying your hand on the neck changes intonation, going from fret to fret will also show you that no guitar is 100% ever.
Pushing on the string with a little more force changes things as well.

Maybe that is on of the reason that things like chorus, vibrato and bending are a big part of guitar playing, they simply mask the imperfect pitch.

If we were to create simple synth like sine waves with guitars it would sound horrible and out of tune.

[ravasb]

If you like to use a lot of different tunings you might want to check out the variax 300 along with workbench. The sounds are not necessarily the greatest if you are a solo artist, but they sound pretty good with a band. You could easily program a dozen or more tunings and switch them with the twist of a knob. The cost of the 300 is not much more than a decent lower to mid range regular guitar.

[Frippertronix]

Hink:

Acoustic guitars always sound out of tune to me. Even properly set-up ones, so I can't use that as a bench mark for the intonation of open tunings.

We are careening dangerously toward the one of those vicious "golden ear" arguments as to whether "the human ear" can hear or can't hear this or that. Some people say there is no difference in sound between a 44.1 KHz sample and a 96 KHz sample---something they also say they can prove, though I think I hear a difference.

According to this classical guitar luthier, it's not true that pitch/tension of a given string doesn't affect intonation:

"Each string behaves differently with regard to sharping tendency when fretted. There are three related rules which apply here: sharping from fretting is inversely proportional to pitch (the pitch rule); pitch is proportional to string tension (the tension rule), and; string tension is proportional to string mass (the string mass rule).

The pitch rule tells us that a guitar will display a global tendency to more sharpness as the open-string pitch goes down, and the Eb string does in fact go sharp more than the Et string. However, the tension rule and the string mass rule also come into play, and we see this especially when we compare the sharping behavior of the G and D strings. If we were to apply the pitch rule only to G and D, we would expect more sharping from D than from G. But D in fact sharps less than G. This is because of the metal windings on D which add mass. Even though D is lower in pitch than G, it has higher tension than G and therefore sharps less. If you want to test this, you can tune your monofilament G-string down to D; the string will now sharp more than when it was tuned to G.

We can rectify the tendency to sharpness from fretting by adjusting the total length of the string (referred to as "compensation" in luthiery terminology)."

Can you hear this? Can I? We would have to test it to be sure. Maybe not--but it is there and at least the luthier I quoted above thinks it is audible to the human ear.

[AndrewSimon]

The only problem I find is that if I change tunings all the time, I find it hard to keep my guitar in tune. If I leave it in the one tune, the strings seem to settle in after a couple of weeks and I only occasionally have to make minor adjustments.

What you are describing here is tension differences between the two sides of the nut.
This can be greatly improved by changing the nut to a high quality one.

I use graphite nuts and bridge saddles.
You can also try to enlarge the gaps on the nut (take it to a guitar tech if you are not sure what you are doing)

One more simple solution is to buy graphite powder at your local hardware store (used by locksmiths)and put some in the saddle gaps.
It's a little messy and you probably have to redo it when you change strings.

With all that said if you have a guitar that the strings take a bend after the nut (like a les paul)
the problem will always be there to a certain degree.
If your strings go strait over the nut (like PRS and some Ibanez) you probably won't have these problem at all.

I wish all guitar manufacturers will adopt the straight design, it is simply better with no negative points except for looks maybe.

BAD DESIGN


GOOD DESIGN

[Frippertronix]

(Referring to my previous post): That said, though, I realize people don't necessarily retune as radically as he suggests when they do open tunings. I never use them so I don't know how it would sound to me.

Another point is this, though---if tension made no difference in intonation, why are you always told to tune up to as close as you can get to concert pitch before you start setting intonation? If pitch plays no role, it shouldn't matter.

[Frippertronix]

To Hink, in response to saying that using different tunings will not affect the intonation, have you checked that with a strobe tuner?

Don't start with the strobe tuner, nothing in life is perfect, especially guitars.

If you use strobe 0.1 cent accuracy you will find out that simply laying your hand on the neck changes intonation, going from fret to fret will also show you that no guitar is 100% ever.
Pushing on the string with a little more force changes things as well.

Maybe that is on of the reason that things like chorus, vibrato and bending are a big part of guitar playing, they simply mask the imperfect pitch.

If we were to create simple synth like sine waves with guitars it would sound horrible and out of tune.

But do you think it sounds worse if bridge intonation is not gotten as close as possible with a 0.1 cent accurate tuner?

[AndrewSimon]

"Each string behaves differently with regard to sharping tendency when fretted. There are three related rules which apply here: sharping from fretting is inversely proportional to pitch (the pitch rule); pitch is proportional to string tension (the tension rule), and; string tension is proportional to string mass (the string mass rule).

The pitch rule tells us that a guitar will display a global tendency to more sharpness as the open-string pitch goes down,

Here is one solution, just bend those frets!

[Hink]

Fripper like I said to start I'm not going to argue the point and I'm not...believe what you wish. Your not using other then standard tuning give you a poor position imo.

[Frippertronix]

I played a Novax f.b. once and found it rather awkward, though some say barre chords are actually easier on them.

[Frippertronix]

Fripper like I said to start I'm not going to argue the point and I'm not...believe what you wish. Your not using other then standard tuning give you a poor position imo.

It's true that I'd have to test it to see if subjectively it was an annoyance, though there are factors involved in string physics that go beyond what your position is based on---it's not a matter of belief.

[AndrewSimon]

But do you think it sounds worse if bridge intonation is not gotten as close as possible with a 0.1 cent accurate tuner?

Strobes are great, I use it and my guitar tech is using one as well.
It's just that after you check your 12th fret try the 5th and the 17th as well and you will see that no guitar is perfect, they will be usually off by 1-2 cent.

[Frippertronix]

Hink---do you set the intonation on your own electric guitars yourself? If so, how do you do it?

[Frippertronix]

But do you think it sounds worse if bridge intonation is not gotten as close as possible with a 0.1 cent accurate tuner?

Strobes are great, I use it and my guitar tech is using one as well.
It's just that after you check your 12th fret try the 5th and the 17th as well and you will see that no guitar is perfect, they will be usually off by 1-2 cent.

I tell everyone to get a Peterson Virtual Strobe, especially since they have the stomp model and they have the affordable software version as well.

Saves a bunch of cash in the long run.

I set my own intonation and I have to do it at least every time I change strings (even with identical brands and gauges) or it starts to bug me.