Opinions on "budgie" monitors

[arrakeen]

Oh, just done some digging and it seems Beyer have taken over distribution in UK...

http://www.beyerdynamic.co.uk/distribut ... uesky.html

[.jon]

I haven't heard them, so don't count on the quality. But a company with vey good reputation and very positive reviews probably tell something.

However, there is a theoretical problem with 2.1 systems like the MediaDesk. The satellites are only producing sounds from 110Hz an up, so everything below that comes from a single source. This does affect stereo placement of mid-low end sounds, and the stereo image up to certain extent.

I think most people agree that kicks & basses should always stay in the middle, but 110Hz is a bit high already... And I've heard speakers that are able to image really low frequencies with astonishing accuracy, even though panned bass sounds are a bit rare.

Björk's Hidden Place contains some quite wonderful "wandering" bass sounds, that are not evident with most systems... like this interests anyone

Bass is also a rather problematic thing in apartments. My 4x8x3,1 meter living is not able to handle large speakers, as the standing waves ruin decent reproduction. Even my tiny 5" 2-way hifi speakers generate low end problems when played loud, probably due to the thick walls. I might also be overly picky about these things , and absolutely should be doing some real work now.

Try at home before you buy is the best advice with speakers.

[arrakeen]

Quite a positive review from SOS however... and Blue Sky used to offer trail before buy via Sonic Distribution in UK but Beyer seem to have taken over - maybe they offer trail as well.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan05/a ... luesky.htm

[c_huelsbeck]

Here's how I got mine... I am doing some music at home and didn't have a decent set of speakers there (not even Hifi). In the studio we went with the Mackies (HR824) a couple years back and they are great monitors, but a bit pricey for my home studio... so I went to the local music store and hooked up my Ipod to their array of speakers (Mackies, Truths, Events, KRKs and Warfedales), listening to a variety of music from my own collection. I really liked the Truth sound... the Mackies are a bit more precise, specially in the bass area, but the Truth still have a nice low end. The KRKs I found too bright and nasal (Punk Rockers might like them), the Events and the Warfedales sounded ok, but didn't exite me. If you can afford the Mackies, they are the best choice of that pack in my opinion, but the Truth are not far behind and are a steal at their price. But I would still advise to go and listen to different speakers side by side with your favourite selection of music before you make a decision.

[bmanic]

Seriously, rather save up and get good monitors or none at all. You will just do more harm than good to your music otherwise. If music making is just a small hobby that you don't really care for that much, then by all means, get the behringer.

Im presuming you dont know who Chris Huelsbeck actually is then?

Umm, no I don't but I wasn't replying to him but to the person who started this thread. My advice was also very sincere. Save up for some good monitors, it's worth it. We have a saying in finnish: "Köyhällä ei ole varaa ostaa paskaa.", translated to "Us poor people can't afford to buy crap."

EDIT: Actually, I do know who you are Chris. =) Been enjoying a lot of your music in some of my favourite games on the C64. It's just been so long time and I'm not into the C64 music scene so it took me a while. I'm expecting a spanking from jmh later today..

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

bmanic, even though the 8020's sound pretty amazing, they simply do not go very low, 66 Hz - 20 kHz (± 2.5 dB.) Everything between these figures is pretty much excellent, and they are very loud for their size, but they give very little accurate information on stuff around 50Hz and below... Might be just fine for video or spoken word applications, but I can't see how one is supposed to mix electronica without the accompanied sub. I think Genelec pretty much admits this, too, and emphasize the role of the 7050 sub in their marketing.

I've not checked the specs but I'm really suprised if they don't reproduce 60hz at least in a real world situation adequately (that is, not in an anchoic chamber where the exact specs are usually checked). Last time I checked them in the shop against the competition, they compared very well in bass response. Some cheap ones like the Behringer truths might go a bit lower but what good is that if the impulse responce of the behringer is a pure "whooooooosh" instead of accurate "thud!" of a kick drum?

IMHO bass response is is definately not the most crucial when it comes to mixing, as long as you get around 60hz and anything below that is extremely hard to monitor properly in livingroom/home-studio settings anyway! The most important thing is the accuracy between 80-3000hz and a nice distortion free 3kHz and above to reduce fatigue. Another important part is how well the monitor shows details, meaning, depth. The 3D element of a mix. At this, the genelecs are top notch, even the 8020 are about as good as money can buy. This is where the cheap monitors fail miserably. A good test is to play some later Steely Dan CDs over the monitors and see if you can spot the very subtle reverb/ambience on the snare drum.

Voxengo SPAN is a great tool that helps checking the deep bass in a home mixing environment, the fine tuning should eventually be left to the true pro, the mastering enginer.

Cheers!
bManic

[jones-y]

I own a pair of Event 20/20bas (the first version) and I've never really been a fan of the midrange on those. It can get harsh at times. I went to GC last night and demoed several speakers

Mackie HR824
Dynaudio BM5A
Yamaha HS-80
M-Audio BX8a
KRK V8

I do hip hop and a smattering of RnB

The clear winner of the bunch to me was the Mackies. The midrange on those was just soooooo smooth. And the bass is just, well, right. They were closely followed, though, by the Dynaudios. The dynaudios were clearer than the Mackies in the high end, and they were very smooth in the upper mid frequencies, but I just felt that the Mackies had a better bass extension and overall midrange. I think the BM5As would be better than the Mackies for "dynamic orchestral "soundtracks"" but I'd be hard pressed to recommend them over the Mackies for dance.

Next to those two, everything else sounded like complete garbage. I mean really. And the salesman spoiled it for me by playing them first... They teach 'em well at GC, apparently. The midrange on the Mackies just made the rest of the monitors sould like a distorted mess (except for the Dynaudios, which it edged out). I wish they had the Tapco S8 (also made by Mackie) because the HR824s and the BM5As are definitely out of my price range. Its said that the Tapcos have that Mackie sound. I liked the HR824s and the BM5As better than my 20/20s but the 20/20s I like better than the others i tested.

They also had the Blue Sky 2.1 system in another room, but I didn't realize it until it was time for me to go. I'm gonna try to get back over there this weekend to compare them as well. They also had a pair of HR624s but one of them was busted and they're waiting on a replacement.

I'd really recomend saving up towards a really nice set of monitors like those Mackies (~$1200/pr) or the Dynaudios ($1000/pr) because they made all the rest of those speakers on my list sound like garbage.

[Rock]

Just a few things... I A/B'ed the Mackie 824's and the Behringer Truths for an hour or so on different reference material and decided to go with the Truths. The Mackies sounded better on most stuff but not all. The Mackies have a very solid wall of sound that sort of hits you, but the Truths to my ears were not that far behind in sound quality. After buying the Behringers (Couldn't justify the cost difference at the time) I A/B compared the Behringers to a pair of Genelecs. There I could hear a real difference in clarity. The Behringers could not really keep up - though I am still not trashing them by any means. I didn't use to have the best room to listen in but I seemed to get the impression that I wasn't hearing little details like reverb tails.

I'm shopping for a new pair of monitors now and will use the Behringers as rears in a 5.1 setup.

You might want to look at the bluesky prodesk as well as the mediadesk although it is a bit more expensive.

You also owe it to yourself to give the new Yamaha HS80M monitors a chance. I have heard nothing but good things about them and they are only $700 a pair. They claim to be the sucessor of the mighty (well mighty in reputation not sound) Yamaha NS10s.

A lot of people rave over the Event Studio Precision 8 monitors. You can get them at under $1000 at bpmmusic.com.

[Rock]

One more thing you likely won't need a sub with the Events, but you likely would with the Yamaha's and the new sub made to accompany the HS series is around $400 which puts the whole system around $1100.

Oh and by the way the MAIN reason I am "upgrading" from the Behringers is that I've just spent several thousand $ building a good sounding control room that I'll be able to rent out and the Behringers just don't have the kind of name that will draw clients. So it's more for others than me. I figured I'll get one more Behringer for a center, throw the old ones in the back and that they will do fine for the 5.1 as I mentioned earlier. Then the mains can be a little more expensive pair.

[Rock]

Here's how I got mine... I am doing some music at home and didn't have a decent set of speakers there (not even Hifi). In the studio we went with the Mackies (HR824) a couple years back and they are great monitors, but a bit pricey for my home studio... so I went to the local music store and hooked up my Ipod to their array of speakers (Mackies, Truths, Events, KRKs and Warfedales), listening to a variety of music from my own collection. I really liked the Truth sound... the Mackies are a bit more precise, specially in the bass area, but the Truth still have a nice low end. The KRKs I found too bright and nasal (Punk Rockers might like them), the Events and the Warfedales sounded ok, but didn't exite me. If you can afford the Mackies, they are the best choice of that pack in my opinion, but the Truth are not far behind and are a steal at their price. But I would still advise to go and listen to different speakers side by side with your favourite selection of music before you make a decision.

I A/B'ed the Mackie 824's and the Behringer Truths for an hour or so on different reference material and decided to go with the Truths. The Mackies sounded better on most stuff but not all. The Mackies have a very solid wall of sound that sort of hits you, but the Truths to my ears were not that far behind in sound quality. After buying the Behringers (Couldn't justify the cost difference at the time)

I don't know how I missed Chris' quote before I wrote what I did regarding the Behringers, but as you can probably see from what I wrote, I agree with him %100.

[jones-y]

You also owe it to yourself to give the new Yamaha HS80M monitors a chance. I have heard nothing but good things about them and they are only $700 a pair. They claim to be the sucessor of the mighty (well mighty in reputation not sound) Yamaha NS10s.

I couldn't bear the thought of those being my monitors.

See, my problem is that I also compose on my monitors. The yamahas just didn't have a pleasing sound to me. I've heard the NS10s and I hated them too. The HS80s sound like an improved NS10, but to me, that's no strong foundation to build upon... However I'm sure, if you can get your mix to sound right on them, it'll sound good anywhere... They're not low quality (that was my impression of the M-Audio BXs and to a bit lesser extent the KRKs) but they just don't have a pleasing sound to me.

I dunno, all this goes to personal preference, but the mackies just sounded so right to me. But you guys do have me interested in the Behringers now... Alas, my local GC doesn't carry them.

[Rock]

The HS80s sound like an improved NS10, but to me, that's no strong foundation to build upon... However I'm sure, if you can get your mix to sound right on them, it'll sound good anywhere...

yeah I think that is supposed to be their strength

See, my problem is that I also compose on my monitors. The yamahas just didn't have a pleasing sound to me.

That's one reason I am leaning towards the Event Studio Precisions.

[jones-y]

I got the Behringer Truth 2031A and I am quite happy with them, specially considering the price:

http://www.behringer.com/B2031A/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Those look like Mackie 824s on your webpage though???

[jones-y]

That's one reason I am leaning towards the Event Studio Precisions.

GC had those, but I didn't test them, because I hear that they have the Event family sound, which is what I'm trying to get away from. (I currently have the 20/20bas V1)

[c_huelsbeck]

I got the Behringer Truth 2031A and I am quite happy with them, specially considering the price:

http://www.behringer.com/B2031A/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Those look like Mackie 824s on your webpage though???

As I said, in the Studio (were that picture was taken) I have the Mackies, but at home I use the Truth.