multisampling hardware synths question

[OMU]

re-construct the filter, envs, LFOs, etc., in your sampler

Steve

Virus' filters, evelopes
In vsampler or whatever
you are joking, this is clear

You are using the wrong sampler - this is clear

Have you heard a Virus?
I'm using exs24 and Kontakt. Good enough?

[Failed Muso]

Have you heard a Virus?
I'm using exs24 and Kontakt. Good enough?

Oh dear, you really have no idea, do you ?

Poor boy



Oh, sorry, I forgot the

[OMU]

You're right.
Let's move on.

[Rangtangtang]

If you'v got the real thing then why sample it. If your synth has a lot knobs to play whith then why not use them. I think you use a sampler when you don't have the real thing. Of all the sampler's about I actualy think the CM's DS404 is the most practical. Mainly because all its knobs are right in front of you and its filter's are excellant. Sampling every note can be quite a tedious time consuming exersize.

[origami]

What do you do if you want to create say 4 or 5 tracks from a synth and only have one audio in in your soundcard, and want to apply effects?

[Yossarian]

Record your synth tracks to hard disk one at a time and add FX later?

/Yoss

[tee boy]

I dont agree with OMU, that the Virus does have a really nice filter, and that reproducing that EXACTLY would be difficult in a sampler.

But again, thats the just the sacrifice you have to make isnt it. I have plenty of synth multisamples that I run in Kontakt, and they dont sounds bad at all. There are some nice VST filters about, so I dont think there is to much need for concern.

[OMU]

You are indeed entitled to have such an oppinion, but from what I can say, you are definately not a Virus owner.
Tell these things about filters to somebody who actualy uses the thing.

[tee boy]

You are indeed entitled to have such an oppinion, but from what I can say, you are definately not a Virus owner.
Tell these things about filters to somebody who actualy uses the thing.

Lol, I actually am a Virus owner, yes. I own quite a bit of hardware, and do have a passion for filters. I often use analogue filters and guitar boxes on the end of synths and what not to colour the sound in different ways. I even bought a load of old school samplers for their individual sounds!

Believe me, if you think you are fanatical about your sound, I am likely to be 110% worse!

Im just trying to point out that if you are going to sample a synth like the Access Virus, you are going to have to make compromises. I dont see any way around that.

Can you think of a sampling protocol that would faithfully represent the specific filters and modulators of a synth? And if you can, PLEASE let me in on the secret

Btw, Virus filters are nice, but strap a Moog filter on the end and you're in a completely different zone!

[OMU]

Now you're talking

Anyway, I don't think I understand your question:
"Can you think of a sampling protocol that would faithfully represent the specific filters and modulators of a synth? And if you can, PLEASE let me in on the secret".

[tee boy]

We were debating the best way to multisample a synth. Steve said that he would open the filters and reset fx and modulation, to recreate in the sampler. You mentioned that this would not be applicable to the Access Virus as its filters are so unique and would not be well represented in any VST sampler...

So my question to you was - can you suggest a better way of sampling the Access Virus, that would allow a better representation of its filters and modulators (ie, sampling WITH filters and env active)?

Personally, I agree with Steve. But I do agree that it would be wonderful if it was possible to capture the subtlties of filter design within a sample based instrument.

[hollowsun]

We were debating the best way to multisample a synth. Steve said that he would open the filters and reset fx and modulation, to recreate in the sampler. You mentioned that this would not be applicable to the Access Virus as its filters are so unique and would not be well represented in any VST sampler...

So my question to you was - can you suggest a better way of sampling the Access Virus, that would allow a better representation of its filters and modulators (ie, sampling WITH filters and env active)?

Personally, I agree with Steve. But I do agree that it would be wonderful if it was possible to capture the subtlties of filter design within a sample based instrument.

Indeed... I am talking about compromise. Modern day samplers can get 90+% close to creating filter sweeps, etc, especially withing the context of a mix (let's not be too purist about all this - let's get practical FFS).

Recreating the filters, etc., in the sampler also gives you a degree of control over the sound but if total authenticity is required, you have no option - sample the Virus 'as is'. Minor thirds would still pretty much suffice tho you might get away with less.... but if you're being anal, then you probably won't be satisfied with anything other than one sample for every note. Waste of time in my books though!

Listen.... I am no slouch at this - I've been using synths since the early 70s (Moog and ARP modulars, Prophets, Oberheims, PPGs, etc.) and I'd like to think I know a thing or three about sampling synths seeing as I make a living from it (to some critical acclaim it must be said). I am just trying to give the practical advice that I thought was asked for.


Steve

[tee boy]

I dont think anyone is taking your advice in vain Steve or belittling your experience. Atleast I certainly am not! Its all gold dust to me bredren

I think OMU just loves his AV so much, the mere thought of it being sampled disgusts him

[OMU]

I think OMU just loves his AV so much, the mere thought of it being sampled disgusts him

If I compare even the "classic virus lp" and the "minimoog lp" in the Virus they sound so different as two different synths.
Trying to reproduce the sound with a sampler is definately a big compromise in my oppinion. I don't say Steve doesn't do a good job cause his patches are quite enjoyable (there are very rare sounds there) and I also appreciate his work.
The thing is, when I want THAT sound, I just sample it as it is, no matter what (and, when we have pianos that weight 1,5 GB, I don't mind having a 50 - 100 MB Virus patch). For me is the sound that counts, cause we now the sound makes the music
All the best.

[Spaceman Sounds]

Lovesign you seem to know a lot about the merits of prefering 16bits over 24bits for recording samples???

The reason I say sample robot is usless for recording at 16bits is because if you have ever made pro libraires you would have noticed that there is a certain need for headroom. At 16 bit this just isn't enough with some notes producing much lower energy than others.... which can equate to nowhere near the full 16bits sometimes more like 12 bit.

Also when you're sampling you have to think about any editing needing to be done to the samples afterwards. And quantisation errors on a 16bit recorded sample are a lot higher than on a 24bit sample. Yes a synth like a virus might output 16bit, but that doesn't mean that your 16 bit soundcard will record every note with the full pristine 16bits of bandwidth.

When sampling analog libraries, I found that you do have to sample the actual synths filter. An MS-20 patch cannot be reproduced by any sampler filter that I know of. So lot of multisampling and usually very long loop points is needed.

I also think that it's very easy to hear soundsets that have been recorded using only 2 notes in an octave, some samplers resampling algo's are less than amazing and are noticable only 3 notes away from their root note.

Lovesign maybe you could amaze us with your sampling prowess before making fun at others observations.