How is Tracktion working out for you? My decision tomm
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1891 posts since 9 Oct, 2004 from Columbus,Ohio
The first note dropping out scares me quite a bit. Even more so is the fact that after all this time they haven't fixed it. That says something about the support. If anyone is using other hosts then please feel free to chime in here and mention them.
"You are going to let the fear of poverty govern your life and your reward will be that you will eat, but you will not live."
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- KVRAF
- 4822 posts since 14 Mar, 2002 from Somewhere else, on principle
He already has ACID. Anyway, ACID sucks in it's present incarnation. IMO, Ableton Live and FL Studio are much better options for someone seeking a host with good timestretching capabilities. Sonar is another good choice but I'm not as fond of it's workflow and interface. The timestretching in Cubase SX is a joke.G-Ro124 wrote:If I were you, I would get ACID. If it's too expensive, we could arrange something so that I buy you the academic version ($250).
ACID is better and has more features and everything, but it's EXTREMELY heavy on CPU and does not like VSTs that much (synth VSTs, not audio effects).
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- KVRAF
- 4822 posts since 14 Mar, 2002 from Somewhere else, on principle
I don't agree. The latest versions of ACID sucks big time. Ableton Live is presently a far superior environment for working with loops.jtxx000 wrote:I disagree. If you are working with loops then acid is definitely the way to go. If you are recording you can't beat tracktion.
Last edited by John Vulich on Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 4822 posts since 14 Mar, 2002 from Somewhere else, on principle
Who the f**k was "bashing" on Tracktion? I didn't read anything that qualified as such.Rock wrote:If you are like me and you are tempted to get defensive when people bash Tracktion, just keep in mind that there are enought posters on KVR bashing the acoustic guitar to keep a thread alive and active...the acoustic guitar for goodnesss sakes!
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
In some peoples minds, alerting people to or simply mentioning the MIDI note drop bug, arrogant customer support, etc counts as "bashing".John Vulich wrote:Who the f**k was "bashing" on Tracktion? I didn't read anything that qualified as such.Rock wrote:If you are like me and you are tempted to get defensive when people bash Tracktion, just keep in mind that there are enought posters on KVR bashing the acoustic guitar to keep a thread alive and active...
I think that if people are considering parting with their cash for a product but decide to ask others for advice first, they are probably interested in hearing about both good and bad experiences.
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- KVRist
- 241 posts since 20 Nov, 2003 from Atlanta and Portland
I find Tracktion to be really simple and fun to use, BUT...
I am a long time Pro Tools user who needed something to use on the laptop because Digidesign sucks.
I bought it for $69(?) way back when and it was a deal. and there was a new release it seemed like every week. and whatever was bugging you at the moment would soon be fixed. I loved it.
It seems like since Mackie starting distributing it (or whatever their deal is) development slowed to a crawl. no more updates. we waited forever for T2. and when we finally got it I was so disappointed. all the things I had been patiently waiting for them to fix didn't happen. I realized they weren't going to. it's basically the same program it was years ago with the same problems. and the file management sucks badly.
try it, if you like it then it might work for you. but don't expect anything to change. I still use it occaisionally but for the most part I moved on after T2 came out.
bb
I am a long time Pro Tools user who needed something to use on the laptop because Digidesign sucks.
I bought it for $69(?) way back when and it was a deal. and there was a new release it seemed like every week. and whatever was bugging you at the moment would soon be fixed. I loved it.
It seems like since Mackie starting distributing it (or whatever their deal is) development slowed to a crawl. no more updates. we waited forever for T2. and when we finally got it I was so disappointed. all the things I had been patiently waiting for them to fix didn't happen. I realized they weren't going to. it's basically the same program it was years ago with the same problems. and the file management sucks badly.
try it, if you like it then it might work for you. but don't expect anything to change. I still use it occaisionally but for the most part I moved on after T2 came out.
bb
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- KVRAF
- 7489 posts since 6 Jul, 2004
I agree with John that Ableton Live may be your best choice. Try the demo.No name wrote: If anyone is using other hosts then please feel free to chime in here and mention them.
Also, have you considered Cakewalk's Project 5 version 2? Like Tracktion it has a simple-to-use single window workspace, without a mixer console. Crucially for you, it supports the ACID .wav format, handling looping in much the same way as ACID itself.
If you fancy something more linear of course, the Sonar range of sequencers (also from Cakewalk) are outstanding, also support the ACID format, and are widely regarded as the best sequencing software on the Windows platform.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1891 posts since 9 Oct, 2004 from Columbus,Ohio
It doesn't technically have to support Acidized wav format. I just prefer the layout of Acid, how you pull all the tracks by your mouse to taste. I want a sequencer that will allow that, but has better midi capability than Acid. I'm outgrowing it now and i'm just looking for something a bit more feature packed, resourceful. Does anyone know what the difference between Cubase SL and se is? Is the main thing the fact that Se only has 48 audio tracks?
"You are going to let the fear of poverty govern your life and your reward will be that you will eat, but you will not live."
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- KVRAF
- 1617 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
I have version 4 and don't have any plans of upgrading but as far as painting loops go it doesn't get any simpler than acid. Now if you want to actually make music then I can definitely see live being the better choice.John Vulich wrote:I don't agree. The latest versions of ACID suck big time. Ableton Live is presently a far superior environment for working with loops.jtxx000 wrote:I disagree. If you are working with loops then acid is definitely the way to go. If you are recording you can't beat tracktion.
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- KVRian
- 958 posts since 14 Apr, 2004 from Maryland, USA
I've been using ACID Pro 4.0, first on a P2/450 and then on an up-to-date (forget the specs) P4. I've done several tracks in ACID, both pure loop-based, and loops + my own recordings (check out my ACID Planet Page and my home page). I now starting to focus on the Tracktion 1.6 freebie as my main DAW software.No name wrote:Ok, how about this. I'm a LONGGGGG time Acid user. That is what I will be switching from. How does it stack up to Acid?
If you want to do loop-based stuff, Tracktion isn't going to replace ACID, plain, pure and simple. It doesn't have the time stretching or pitch-shifting capabilities that ACID does. OTOH, ACID's one sound per track approach, which makes reasonable sense for loops, starts to break down when you want to have, say, a guitar track with various different bits on it. Overall, I consider Tracktion more powerful and capable, especially WRT VST and VSTi handling. It's just overall more flexible.
Right now, I'm using them in tandem. I use ACID to process drum loops and build up drum tracks, then export them to WAV, either in whole or in pieces, then using Tracktion for the rest of the recording / editing / finalizing process, using both MIDI and audio. Sometimes that's as simple as changing the tempo of a drum loop: pull up a 140bpm loop in ACID, set the tempo to 143bmp, and export the result. Pull that in to Tracktion; voila, 143bpm drums. I think this combo works great. Sometimes I prototype the whole song in ACID, especially where recording some loops of my own helps out with that. I'd like to get to programming my own drum tracks, but meanwhile this approach gives me really good drum tracks to strum along to.
Bottom line: loops in ACID; anything else, I think Tracktion is really nice, and much more flexible / capable than ACID.
DaveL
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 6 Dec, 2003 from Mission Control
After I paid to upgrade to T2 I was so dissapointed I uninstalled it. I haven't used it since and to be honest I don't see me using it again. I don't even test plugs for it anymore.bongo_x wrote: try it, if you like it then it might work for you. but don't expect anything to change. I still use it occaisionally but for the most part I moved on after T2 came out.
bb
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
<shrug>
I knew when T2 was released that it wasn't "radically different" enough to please everybody. Luckily, those of us who stuck with it realized how much of a development it really was.
To address a few other concerns as much as I'm able to:
- The dropped first note is a core problem with the engine. Not everyone realizes that. It needs to be included as a ground-up rewrite of the audio engine, hence it hasn't been fixed yet. Trust me, if it was an easy fix it would have been done ages ago.
- New additions to T2 HAVE been the direct result of feature requests, and I have every reason to believe that future additions will also be due to feedback on this forum. In fact, when I made requests via PM and other channels, I was told specifically to post it HERE because this is where Mackie considers the most action to be happening regarding such discussions.
- The public updates aren't really less frequent. People just have selective nostalgia. Sometimes I disagree with Mackie's way of waiting so long and changing so many things before public updates, but that doesn't mean they're not happening behind the scenes, or that the programmers aren't busy. For reasons of their own (again, I'm not completely in agreement with them) they like to make a substantial set of changes, test them as thoroughly as possible (remembering that the programmers and testers are still just a set of humans), and then make a comprehensive update release.
The fact that there's not a "Friday beta" doesn't mean it's not being developed. I don't recall hearing about Cubase's slough of updates ever since SX3 was released and the first (and only?) major service update.
The fact that other developers (like Ableton, Jorgen, or Podium) have more public betas and/or updates is great and I'd like that, too, to a certain degree. On the other hand, I don't like trying to do something, asking for help, and having the userbase say, "Oh, sorry, you need the latest beta to do it the way I was describing." There's something to be said for stability. In any case, it's a false assumption that because a company has a different way of working that it means they're not working at all.
I, for one, have reason to be very happy with Tracktion so far, am well-pleased with Mackie's involvement, and have a very positive outlook on Tracktion's future development.
Greg
I knew when T2 was released that it wasn't "radically different" enough to please everybody. Luckily, those of us who stuck with it realized how much of a development it really was.
To address a few other concerns as much as I'm able to:
- The dropped first note is a core problem with the engine. Not everyone realizes that. It needs to be included as a ground-up rewrite of the audio engine, hence it hasn't been fixed yet. Trust me, if it was an easy fix it would have been done ages ago.
- New additions to T2 HAVE been the direct result of feature requests, and I have every reason to believe that future additions will also be due to feedback on this forum. In fact, when I made requests via PM and other channels, I was told specifically to post it HERE because this is where Mackie considers the most action to be happening regarding such discussions.
- The public updates aren't really less frequent. People just have selective nostalgia. Sometimes I disagree with Mackie's way of waiting so long and changing so many things before public updates, but that doesn't mean they're not happening behind the scenes, or that the programmers aren't busy. For reasons of their own (again, I'm not completely in agreement with them) they like to make a substantial set of changes, test them as thoroughly as possible (remembering that the programmers and testers are still just a set of humans), and then make a comprehensive update release.
The fact that there's not a "Friday beta" doesn't mean it's not being developed. I don't recall hearing about Cubase's slough of updates ever since SX3 was released and the first (and only?) major service update.
The fact that other developers (like Ableton, Jorgen, or Podium) have more public betas and/or updates is great and I'd like that, too, to a certain degree. On the other hand, I don't like trying to do something, asking for help, and having the userbase say, "Oh, sorry, you need the latest beta to do it the way I was describing." There's something to be said for stability. In any case, it's a false assumption that because a company has a different way of working that it means they're not working at all.
I, for one, have reason to be very happy with Tracktion so far, am well-pleased with Mackie's involvement, and have a very positive outlook on Tracktion's future development.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 3386 posts since 21 May, 2004 from Deep in the Heartlessness of Texas
Hey, no name -- I've been checking out sequencers lately myself. Have drifted away from Tracktion because of the bad MIDI issues. And, shamefully, I want a mixer, dammit. Though, like everybody else says, I think it's great for just banging out some audio tracks without stessing over the software.
Anyhow, Steinberg has a comparison chart on Cubase versions here: ftp://steinberg.de/Download/General_Doc ... arison.pdf
More importanly, IMHO, last week I e-mailed Steinberg USA sales about this: Does Cubase SE have the 3.1.x updates, which were apparently a major bug-fix, and he replied that it does not, and did not offer any info about when that might change.
One vendor told me that Steinberg is focussed on SL and SX to the exclusion of SE. You can get SE for $75, and the cheapest SL I've seen is $240, but my take on it is that it's worth the difference if you're wanting to stay on track with bug-fixes.
Not to start more flames on the subject, but I"m fortunate enough to have an M-Audio card which will run Pro Tools M-Powered 7. I've been using the demo for a week or so now, am slowly figuring it all out.
Tonight I made Beat Detective work for the first time, allowing me to automate generation of a tempo map, against a freely-played guitar track, which means that the sequencer follows my tempo, instead of me having to follow its tempo. Which was incredibly cool, because now my drum VSTs are under my control. I like the way M-Powered feels, and am leaning in that direction. Tonight, at least.
I don't find the simple stuff in M-Powered, like creating tracks and adding inserts and recording basic audio and MIDI, hard to learn so far, in keeping with your desire, but Beat Detective messed my head up for awhile, and I'm sure there'll be other stumbling blocks before it's over.
Several caveats about M-Powered for most folks, though:
1. You gotta have a compatible card.
2. FXpansion is still in beta with the adapter that allows you to use VSTs with Pro Tools. I'm think I'm not buying M-Powered until they get the adapter out the door, and even then will likely wait to make sure no bad bugs surface.
3. It's a good thing if you qualify for academic purchase, because it's then only $150. If not, though, it's $250, which is in line with the cost for Cubase SL.
Good luck in your quest.
Take care,
GreyLion
Anyhow, Steinberg has a comparison chart on Cubase versions here: ftp://steinberg.de/Download/General_Doc ... arison.pdf
More importanly, IMHO, last week I e-mailed Steinberg USA sales about this: Does Cubase SE have the 3.1.x updates, which were apparently a major bug-fix, and he replied that it does not, and did not offer any info about when that might change.
One vendor told me that Steinberg is focussed on SL and SX to the exclusion of SE. You can get SE for $75, and the cheapest SL I've seen is $240, but my take on it is that it's worth the difference if you're wanting to stay on track with bug-fixes.
Not to start more flames on the subject, but I"m fortunate enough to have an M-Audio card which will run Pro Tools M-Powered 7. I've been using the demo for a week or so now, am slowly figuring it all out.
Tonight I made Beat Detective work for the first time, allowing me to automate generation of a tempo map, against a freely-played guitar track, which means that the sequencer follows my tempo, instead of me having to follow its tempo. Which was incredibly cool, because now my drum VSTs are under my control. I like the way M-Powered feels, and am leaning in that direction. Tonight, at least.
I don't find the simple stuff in M-Powered, like creating tracks and adding inserts and recording basic audio and MIDI, hard to learn so far, in keeping with your desire, but Beat Detective messed my head up for awhile, and I'm sure there'll be other stumbling blocks before it's over.
Several caveats about M-Powered for most folks, though:
1. You gotta have a compatible card.
2. FXpansion is still in beta with the adapter that allows you to use VSTs with Pro Tools. I'm think I'm not buying M-Powered until they get the adapter out the door, and even then will likely wait to make sure no bad bugs surface.
3. It's a good thing if you qualify for academic purchase, because it's then only $150. If not, though, it's $250, which is in line with the cost for Cubase SL.
Good luck in your quest.
Take care,
GreyLion
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 1891 posts since 9 Oct, 2004 from Columbus,Ohio
You know what, f**k it, i'm just gonna spend the $300. Better to have one host that will do 98% of what I want it to do for 300 dollars than have one that does 75% for 150 dollars. Let's talk the hosts around $300. I see
Cubase SL
P5
Sonar Studio edition
Adobe Audition
OR maybe just go ahead and stick with Acid. I don't know.
It sounds like what i'm looking for, but Ableton is just too fuckin expensive, I couldn't justify it at this point.
If you guys wish to discuess these....
By the way. For Cakewalk's products do you still need to use their wrapper? I hear it is pretty buggy, or used to be at least. I f**king hate the fact that all my USB ports are gonna be plugged up with dongles, but oh well. Damn they make it difficult to actually buy their shit sometimes! Anyways, shall we discuess??
Cubase SL
P5
Sonar Studio edition
Adobe Audition
OR maybe just go ahead and stick with Acid. I don't know.
It sounds like what i'm looking for, but Ableton is just too fuckin expensive, I couldn't justify it at this point.
If you guys wish to discuess these....
By the way. For Cakewalk's products do you still need to use their wrapper? I hear it is pretty buggy, or used to be at least. I f**king hate the fact that all my USB ports are gonna be plugged up with dongles, but oh well. Damn they make it difficult to actually buy their shit sometimes! Anyways, shall we discuess??
"You are going to let the fear of poverty govern your life and your reward will be that you will eat, but you will not live."
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- KVRist
- 360 posts since 27 Jul, 2004 from Cologne/Germany
Well, at this point it might be a good idea to start a new thread in "Hosts" 
BTW, I like Tracktion very much. It's still my most frequently used host: Great for audio and sufficient for my Midi needs. Actually, I never encountered the "dropped first note problem" - what am I doing wrong?
Regards,
Tommy
BTW, I like Tracktion very much. It's still my most frequently used host: Great for audio and sufficient for my Midi needs. Actually, I never encountered the "dropped first note problem" - what am I doing wrong?
Regards,
Tommy
Some music here