Waves Over Priced? Maybe - Maybe not...

[munchkin]

I find the wave plugins too clinical. I liked their mastering plugins when I first heard them but find now that they make everything sound like brittle plastic.

To my ears Waves sound cold compared to my UAD-1 and Voxengo plugins. I really like the new crysonic eq so price does not determine sound quality imo.

I own the Sony Oxford plugins and while I think they're very good I find their sound isn't what I like. I'm sure some will claim I don't know how to use them otherwise I'd love them but that's a red herring. Either you like the sound of a plugin or you don't. That has nothing to do with so-called "professional" kudos.

Let's be honest, anyone who is doing intensive production will be using a lot of hardware. So all those who are criticising Voxengo because they own Waves are just a bunch of small fish pissing on the smaller fish in a very large pond.

[AVBunyan]

So all those who are criticising Voxengo because they own Waves are just a bunch of small fish pissing on the smaller fish in a very large pond.

For the record - I am not and have never criticized Voxengo or Kaeuhrus plugs - they are nice plugs.

Also, I understand Aleksey will work with you on packages - he is a great guy and I like what he does. And my rough ideas for the prices were rough.

I feel some may have misunderstood my original post or it was my fault for not making it more clear - My point was the small guy can afford the smaller Waves' packages and... they are good plugs - tried and proven.

Later

[pdxindy]

you made a good point, but there is no way I would buy waves with their daft copy protection when I can support a small developer doing business in a way I respect more and producing high quality products at very reasonable prices.

[AVBunyan]

you made a good point, but there is no way I would buy waves with their daft copy protection when I can support a small developer doing business in a way I respect more and producing high quality products at very reasonable prices.

And that is commendable and I respect you for it - I also have bought Voxengo plugs.

How would Alexksey feel if he started really losing big bucks to piracy?

God bless

[pough]

How would Alexksey feel if he started really losing big bucks to piracy?

Probably the same or similar to every other developer out there. Although how anyone could ever know how much money they've actually lost due to piracy is beyond me. It's not like your old-school piracy where physical objects were removed from your posession. Arr, but those were the days, laddies!

[Aleksey Vaneev]

AVBunyan, according to my records I lose zero. 'Piracy losses' is a wishful thinking on this small on-line professional scene. On large scale scenes (like music) piracy can bring down incomes by 15% - but even that IS wishful thinking, because we are talking about customers of all ages (target audience's age and professional orientation means much in estimation of piracy).

I talk about this with a lot of confidence, because I have r8brain PRO product which has not been cracked to date as far as I know. Its sale amounts are in the same league as other Voxengo (plug-in) products. So, in all my honesty I can't say piracy damages my business a lot. Somebody can call me lucky, but I do not feel lucky because I myself purchase legal software even if I have the possibility to use cracks. Some other logic should be there.

[Sami]

[bmanic]

I've tried a lot of those already and no way they are better than waves; not that I don't wish they were. But you have your opinion and I have mine and I know neither of us will change so...

Fair enough. Better is of course subjective but things like Aliasing, Phase anomalies and Distortion can be measured and some of the plugins that I've mentioned are technically superior to the waves equivalent, AFAIK.

Cheers!
bManic

[AVBunyan]

AVBunyan, according to my records I lose zero.

Great but.but..Aleksey, what if you were to star losing big money - it wouldn't be fun would it? Companies that use the Ilok feel they are protecting their profits the best way they know how - I can't knock them for that though their systems can be a pain.

Aleksey - I am happy for you - I desire to see your business grow - you have a great talent and love for your work and I pray that it will grow beyond yours and others wildest expectations.

May God richly bless

[D_Tox]

AVBunyan, according to my records I lose zero.

Great but.but..Aleksey, what if you were to star losing big money - it wouldn't be fun would it? Companies that use the Ilok feel they are protecting their profits the best way they know how - I can't knock them for that though their systems can be a pain.

Aleksey - I am happy for you - I desire to see your business grow - you have a great talent and love for your work and I pray that it will grow beyond yours and others wildest expectations.

May God richly bless

Aleksey you have my utmost respect for being the first software developer come out and say what you just said.

AVBunyan....no software company can say they are losing to piracy without the explicit knowledge that everybody with a cracked copy would have gone out and bought it anyway.

[munchkin]

AVBunyan, according to my records I lose zero.

Great but.but..Aleksey, what if you were to star losing big money - it wouldn't be fun would it? Companies that use the Ilok feel they are protecting their profits the best way they know how - I can't knock them for that though their systems can be a pain.

Aleksey - I am happy for you - I desire to see your business grow - you have a great talent and love for your work and I pray that it will grow beyond yours and others wildest expectations.

May God richly bless

Aleksey you have my utmost respect for being the first software developer come out and say what you just said.

AVBunyan....no software company can say they are losing to piracy without the explicit knowledge that everybody with a cracked copy would have gone out and bought it anyway.

I think this is so true and really underpins the whole debate about whether piracy does or does not affect sales. Unless there is proof then it's really just a debate like whether god exists or not.

Voxengo plugins are excellent imo. I imagine as much work goes into their development as does the Waves products. The difference is that Voxengo price their plugins at a reasonable level while Waves do not. Therefore Waves potentially loses so much more in this piracy debate. But that doesn't mean they are worth what Waves charges.

I've just read an article in SOS about the making of 'Our House' by Madness. In the article one of the producers explains that he disliked the sound of SSL EQ and chose to use outboard. Bring it up to date and maybe he might've chosen Voxengo over Waves SSL? Would that've made him any less of a producer?

I think it's important to remember that music is about the sound not the name on the equipment. And to reject one sound for another is part of the creative process. Never be bamboozled by brand names otherwise there is the danger of spending lots of wasted time trying to get the right sound from the wrong product.

That doesn't mean SSL, Neve etc. etc. aren't great for some people but these brands shouldn't be used as badges of superiority to dismiss another persons preference.

[sounddesigner]

AVBunyan, according to my records I lose zero.

Great but.but..Aleksey, what if you were to star losing big money - it wouldn't be fun would it? Companies that use the Ilok feel they are protecting their profits the best way they know how - I can't knock them for that though their systems can be a pain.

Aleksey - I am happy for you - I desire to see your business grow - you have a great talent and love for your work and I pray that it will grow beyond yours and others wildest expectations.

May God richly bless

Aleksey you have my utmost respect for being the first software developer come out and say what you just said.

AVBunyan....no software company can say they are losing to piracy without the explicit knowledge that everybody with a cracked copy would have gone out and bought it anyway.

I think this is so true and really underpins the whole debate about whether piracy does or does not affect sales. Unless there is proof then it's really just a debate like whether god exists or not.

Voxengo plugins are excellent imo. I imagine as much work goes into their development as does the Waves products. The difference is that Voxengo price their plugins at a reasonable level while Waves do not. Therefore Waves potentially loses so much more in this piracy debate. But that doesn't mean they are worth what Waves charges.

I've just read an article in SOS about the making of 'Our House' by Madness. In the article one of the producers explains that he disliked the sound of SSL EQ and chose to use outboard. Bring it up to date and maybe he might've chosen Voxengo over Waves SSL? Would that've made him any less of a producer?

I think it's important to remember that music is about the sound not the name on the equipment. And to reject one sound for another is part of the creative process. Never be bamboozled by brand names otherwise there is the danger of spending lots of wasted time trying to get the right sound from the wrong product.

That doesn't mean SSL, Neve etc. etc. aren't great for some people but these brands shouldn't be used as badges of superiority to dismiss another persons preference.

I agree with much of this. Brand names are not that important, its not good to buy products just because they have a certain name, but better to buy what you the individual truly believes sound good and will work for you.What sounds good can be freeware or something by ssl thats hardware.But there are unfortunately many companies that sell products off name and the fact that certain famous commercial artists use their products.

[pdxindy]

AVBunyan, according to my records I lose zero.

Great but.but..Aleksey, what if you were to star losing big money - it wouldn't be fun would it? Companies that use the Ilok feel they are protecting their profits the best way they know how - I can't knock them for that though their systems can be a pain.

Aleksey - I am happy for you - I desire to see your business grow - you have a great talent and love for your work and I pray that it will grow beyond yours and others wildest expectations.

May God richly bless

A developer has choices in how they can address the issue if they legitimately are losing a lot of sales. Some of them choose solutions that are causing less impact for the paying customer. Some of them treat all their customers like they are the thieves.

It is not my fault if some people pirate the software of a company and if the company makes choices that seriously impact me (and make me pay for that impact) then I will be buying my software elsewhere.

[Spyro]

To answer the original post:

I guess I have something visceral against all major companies.

I think it has something related to, large companies = you feel yourself smaller, small companies = you feel you have more contact with the devs.

Small companies "usually" have cool people, large comps "usually" forces you to pass through layers of support teams. There are cool ones no doubt, if they had everything organized you don't need anything more.

Large comps usually charges more per update, and they have fixed schedules, small companies are more flexible.

Finally, is REALLY englighting (well I need a better word for this but I gotta go now)when you find ppl from small companies doing really GOOD stuff while having fun with it also and having a better communicatoin with their users.

[AVBunyan]

....small companies = you feel you have more contact with the devs.

...Small companies "usually" have cool people,

...Large comps usually charges more per update,

...when you find ppl from small companies doing really GOOD stuff while having fun with it also and having a better communicatoin with their users.

I agree - I like small companies but I went with Waves because I could keep all the plugs "under one roof" and most of the plugs I liked - I just always wanted to own some Waves plugs.

I just got finished playing with the Kjaerhus EQ - a really good EQ - just can't spend the $98 after spending what I already spent.

Just got finished playing with Voxengo's AnalogueFlux - great plug - just can't see spending the extra after spending what I already have -

I just had to draw the line. I don't have a problem with anybody buying from Voxengo or Kjaerhus - great plugs.

As i have said before...Every ear and every wallet is different

God bless