Are any free effects better than Cubase's built-in ones?

[kritikon]

Oh man, you want to talk about the worst interfaces EVER!?!? Totally unuseable in Cubase. I do wish they'd update these; you're right: they are great-sounding. Love their chorus.

yeah...I'm with you on DSPFX. They were (and still are) crying out for a revamp and an update. To my ears, they still stand above some present day commercial FX offerings. The flanger was capable of some great weirdness, and the reverb was possibly one of the least offensive reverbs of its day (and still of today). Weren't there 2 versions? - a real space reverb and a rooms type reverb...I remember the real space reverb being quite realistic and capable of being used high in a mix without any nasty ringing etc.

They never got on the VST bandwagon did they though? Probably why they never made a big name for themselves? If they updated them, made one or two improvements, and released VST versions, I suspect I'd buy them quite happily.

[hifiboom]

DSPFX reverb really was very nice and yes the user interface is one oof the worst ever, but think of the time it was released.

It's still competative today in soundquality and way better than many other reverbs...

to come back to topic....

I love Cubase since the first day with all its midi capabilities, but if they want to call their sequencer they should go on and update their whole fx, as these are like toys for kids.... nothing professional at all....

I like Cubase for its midi functionality....

But if Jorgen would just make energy XT look more professional and add some features to its sequencer, I would jump over...

At the moment I don't like the surface, but it seems to me that even at this point energyXT is way more flexible than Cubase... ( and if you look at the price)
Jorgen should just hire a professional grafics designer to make its platform look better.

He could easily sell it for double the price....

A bit OT, I know, but I am just not totally satisfied with Cubase at all. And look at its price now... they won't pro-money, they also should deliver a pro tool with pro fx....

[snooky]

.

As usual, Snooky probably hasn't even heard the Cubase FX, so he doesn't really know what they sound like...

ah- of course I forgot. what is this cubase you talk of?

of course I have used them you dimwit, and they're of low quality, but improving.

the built in Logic plugs beat them silly tho, they're topnotch!
(even the old 5.51 versions I use sound superb!)

[DevonB]

but no single host (especially not Logic) has a full set of FX that are good enough on their own.

Oooooh...jeez...I'd have to agree with ttoz on this one. Even I would have to acknowledge that Logic ships with a pretty enviable set of effects...

My god, no kidding. Logic was not perfect, but the tape delay, stereo delay, chorus, symphonic, the hi and low cut filters, flanger, even the weirdness like Spectral Gate came in handy some times. They were all very usable at least. I won't even touch the majority of the stuff in Cubase. That was and STILL is the hardest thing for me to swallow when I switched from Logic to Cubase. Hell, even the Gold and Platinum reverb, no matter how crappy, still was almost usable with a low mix setting. Reverb A and B are just completely unusable for anything natural.

Devon

[kritikon]

I love Cubase since the first day with all its midi capabilities, but if they want to call their sequencer they should go on and update their whole fx, as these are like toys for kids.... nothing professional at all....

Hmmm...I'm never quite decided on that subject. On the one hand...for sure the Cubase FX (at least some of them) certainly could be alot better than they are...some have indeed fallen behind. (Some are still top notch...as I already mentioned, I prefer Tonic and Stepfilter to almost all other commercial filter plugins out there apart from TC Filtrator).

On the other hand...you get with every host, a very wide selection of FX that at the least are useable. You look at the price of a complete set of FX including everything in Cubase at top quality level and let's see how much it adds up to.

Reverb...well I wouldn't want anything less than Princeton (which doesn't even cover the whole spectrum, so if you use Princeton then you need to buy another reverb as well)$199 + $99 = $298...or CSR $399 or AA $189 or Altiverb ($595). The average of those is $370. ( )

Delays...at least it gets a bit cheaper from now on.
Ohmboyz $100, DP5 $109, Lexicon PSP 42 $149. There are more but those are the minimum quality to be considered "pro" enough in this argument. The average is $119.

Phasers...Mobilohm $100...errr...can't think of any others that good So the average is $100.

Flangers...I don't use them much, but I'll assume it's going to be much the same price, so $100

Choruses...I don't know offhand of anything better than the Golden Modulator, so $58

Compressors. Kjaerhus GCO1 $118, I'll include Golden Audio Channel too as it compares to the Dynamics plugin of Cubase - a channel strip kinda thing $198, Sonalksis SV-315 $240, Voxengo Marquis $90. (Quite a varied price range there innit?) Average $161

I won't include Eqs, as I totally agree that any host should include a decent Eq as standard - a host is also a mixing desk, so it bloody well should be minimum requirement to have reasonable Eq to start with.

Gate...the most obvious one that pops to mind is Kjaerhus (again!) Golden Audio Gate $78

Filters...PSP Nitro $149, OhmForce QuadFrohmage $192, AudioDamage BigSeq $39 (actually I'm tempted to add this on top of filters, because Cubase has a main filter and a sequenced filter....so I will) Average $170 + $39 = $209.

I'm bored now; can't be arsed flicking backwards and forwards to the product links...and I haven't even started on all the other includded FX that you'd need to equal the sheer amount in Cubase. Ring mod, overdrive, distortion, panner, valve sim, saturation, multiband (and there's one...I can't even think of a good enough multiband in the VST platform outside of Waves, most are DSP card plugins!).

So we've already got upto $1195 just for those basic single plugins. Add up all the other plugins you'd need to add to complete the set, and I feel pretty sure you could at least double thaty price. Maybe there'll be offers on some of those plugins - for sure if they were bundled in Cubase they'd actually cost a little less. But we're way above the price of a brand new Cubase already. Last time I upgraded to SX2, the full price of SX2 from new was NZ$1100. Which is around US$700. A bit less on current conversion, actually.

So now tell me that Cubase FX are crap and cheap and should be laughed at. Just for a really basic and small set of crucial FX you've already payed over 1.5 times the price of the whole host package - and to me, the main expense of any host is the audio and midi sequencing and editing - after all, THAT is the only reason I bought it. That applies to any host, not just Cubase.

FFS I didn't even include a limiter! How can you have a full DAW without a limiter?

Another option to buying up separate FX would be to include something like a complete Waves set. The Gold bundle retails at $1300 at present...and I'm sure some would say the Gold bundle os not really good enough for a complete set.


So...yes, I agree that some (definitely not all by a very long shot) Cubase plugins really do need to be made better. But when you look at the cost at making up your own DAW with separate plugins, it doesn't seem quite so expensive, does it. And now you realise why thew Cubase FX are not the best out there. Just like SOnar's, Logic's etc are NOT the best out there.


Actually...I knew I had a point to prove...but I really surprised myself by how much a DAW costs to get a full quality set of plugins. I didn't think it was going to be quite that much. And I really haven't touched the surface. It makes me appreciate my h/w a little more, I think. I spent good money on those years and years ago...but at least some of them are still relevant and current, and will continue to give me good results for many years to come. When the next PC OS comes out (Win64 or whatever...), and Cubase goes beyond SX5 to the next incarnation (Cubase GT Turbo or whatever) and all my old plugins won't work on it, and I have to start replacing them with shiney new ones...f**k me, it's going to cost alot.


It's something we don't like to look at isn't it, though. FX are not cheap for a good set. Even take out all of the Cubase FX and sell it purely as an FXless host...I can't see them selling it for much less than $500 anyway.

[DevonB]

It's something we don't like to look at isn't it, though. FX are not cheap for a good set. Even take out all of the Cubase FX and sell it purely as an FXless host...I can't see them selling it for much less than $500 anyway.

It's not about the price of the plug-ins. It's the fact that the *REAL* competition here (I'm considering Logic, Sonar, Samplitude, etc. to be the real competitors) are putting Cubase (and even moreso, Nuendo) to shame which are in the same general price range. Are there better version of the Logic plugins? Oh heck yes. Can I write a LOT of music with extremely low CPU usage with the Logic included plugin? Oh heck yes! I used to have something like 40-50+ effects plugins on a song in Logic 5 with 16+ tracks on a 1.7Ghz machine and have CPU to spare. Yes, this was mostly audio tracks, I will give you that. Without a doubt though, Logic was efficient. Also, Logic just demolishes the competition with its synths. ES2? Amazing. Granted, don't underestimate A1, or Embracer, but it's still not up to par with the latest crop from Logic.

The point is Logic's effects and synths seem to be 'cut from the same cloth' so to speak with their quality, whereas Cubase is a patchwork quilt, some plug-ins are better than others. Sad. Granted I'm still a little bitter being a PC user only. Still, I prefer working with Cubase over Logic. I just prefer what's included in Logic over Cubase.

Devon

[kritikon]

For sure, Cubase is falling behind with its FX and synths. I'm just making the point that there isn't one single host I would happily only use internal FX and synths. Synths especially.

I could make tracks only with internal FX, but I don't choose to. I wouldn't choose to with Logic, Sonar or Samplitude either. In fact the first thing I did when I bought an audio version of a sequencer was to buy better synths and FX. To me, the included FX aren't quite irrelevant...but it wouldn't be the end of my world if all hosts from here on in, were sold without any FX.

But if you really really had to (and you were desperately strapped for cash) then you could make complete tracks with the included host FX in any hostIMO.

Actually, I think there's a reasonable likelihood that now Yamaha own Steinberg, they might include a few of their own newer FX etc wiuth the next release. I do agree it would be a good idea. At least they haven't fallen into the trap of wanting to release an immediate but flawed update the moment they acquired the company.

[dover666]

click my sig

[bduffy]

Hmm, I missed notifications for this thread - perhaps that dick from the "how do I sound more professional" thread distracted me..

Sometimes I think we can get a little hung up on the host's default FX. I totally agree with Kritikon: if I had to use JUST Steinberg's stuff, I could pull something off. It would need massaging afterwards to de-thaw it a bit, but just go listen to the mp3 demos for S.I.D. at their site; there's one done with Steinberg's Virtual Guitarist in Nuendo 1.5 with only default compressors and EQ. It sounds fantastic. I'll leave the reall nitty-gritty, almost-better-than-gear stuff to the developers who really have time to sink their heads in and create the killer stuff, like TriTone, Voxengo, Kjaerhus, URS, etc, etc.

[Muzik 4 Machines]

Are any free effects better than Cubase's built-in ones?
move Are 3 positions
remove ?
you got an answer
any free effects are better than Cubase's built-in ones


it's a joke,they come a long way since choirus(was actually good)

[Trojan Badger]

Thanks for the tip on the soft clip in the multiband. My drums are alive again! Hurrah!

Will try Q out next time I'm mixing, that sounds well worth investigating.

Hearing that Roomworks is basically Ambience makes me a little happier. So I reckon the best first investment in Cubase is a compressor. Hey, does anyone make compressors? Oh yeas. Thousands. Oh dear. The first step here is going to be a tricky one....

[Firebird]

Many of the Cubase FX are well under-rated. .

I would agree with this, considering they are stock effects.
If you were forced to do an entire project with only the Cubase effects you could still do a great job.

[bduffy]

Many of the Cubase FX are well under-rated. .

I would agree with this, considering they are stock effects.
If you were forced to do an entire project with only the Cubase effects you could still do a great job.

I agree. Every once in awhile I'll sit down to a fresh comp and decide to stick with only the stock synths and FX. Works quite well, usually.

[hifiboom]

They are selling Cubase as full-featured sequencer...

I think for its price they could add high-quality plug-ins...

Samplitude does also add, and they also have a very good sounding IR reverb integrated and some nice dynamics plug-ins.

Cubase:
reverb=shit
dynamics=shit
EQ, Delay, flanger:its okay, nothing to write home about

[bduffy]

They are selling Cubase as full-featured sequencer...

I think for its price they could add high-quality plug-ins...

Samplitude does also add, and they also have a very good sounding IR reverb integrated and some nice dynamics plug-ins.

Cubase:
reverb=shit
dynamics=shit
EQ, Delay, flanger:its okay, nothing to write home about

Both Samplitude and Logic cost more than Cubase. SX 3 is $300 less than either of those two on Sweetwater.com, for instance.