KVR Audio

orange · Post by **orange** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:14 am

time signatures and swing are really bugging me also.

ive being a user since v3.5 but now that i needed to use multiple timesignatures and swing patterns i found how limited is flstudio when it comes to this.

i find my self slowly moving to studio one and i hate that!

but the stuborness of the developer is epic on this matters.

dexterbella · Post by **dexterbella** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:37 am

highkoo wrote:
memyselfandus wrote: has anything changedin the last 6 years as far as working with multiple time signatures is concerned?
You mean, have the people interested in such niche functionality stopped bitching about it being 'too hard', while they do it?
No, not really.

Time signature changes are absolutely not niche functionality but an integral part of an awful lot of music that is a bit more complex than your average dance track. It is still one of many areas where FL is sorely lacking.

highkoo · Post by **highkoo** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:20 pm

dexterbella wrote: Time signature changes are absolutely not niche functionality but an integral part of an awful lot of music that is a bit more complex than your average dance track. It is still one of many areas where FL is sorely lacking.

Really?
What percentage of the songs written in the world have time sig changes do you think?

orange · Post by **orange** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

and this is one thing i hate the most from flstudio users.

always when someone posts about something that flstudio lacks or implements poorly they come with workarounds or try to make the function obsolete because since fl doesn't have it means its not something that is useful.

time signatures and swing must be implemented in the piano roll and playlist with a nice visual grid representation and snapping functions that every decent daw has.

thats the reason many say flstudio is a toy.. not because it is really a toy but just cos most of its users are kids that have no idea about music that is beyond the 4/4 signature and think everything else is some kind of paleolithic functionality.

i make psytrance but i really love swing patterns and i love my playlist and piano roll grids to represent the amount of swing i add to my tracks so that every quantize and clip arranging snaps to grid without needing to move notes manually.

highkoo · Post by **highkoo** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:50 pm

Sorry for joking, and then asking.

My question stands, anyhow.

edit:
http://soundcloud.com/fat-data

Your tracks are good! So no offense at all, but the four Ive listened to are rippin 4/4. Are there tracks on there with sig changes like you talk about?
Or are you really just talking about the 'swing' of notes?

orange · Post by **orange** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:22 pm

yes this has no time signatures.. it just has a 34% swing that i had to do in studio one first for the bassline and drums and then load into flstudio and do the percussion on the step sequencer with a 34% swing and then back to studio one for the synth parts and arps. but the playlist or the piano roll have no representation visually for the swing amount.

time signatures are really usefull when you want to make a trance track from 4/4 to 3/4 or a weird breaks track at 4/4 with a swing that goes to 9/8 straight.

in flstudio you are f***ed there is no way to do this or at least not with a lousy workaround of placing notes around the grid with a free hand and trying to get to the swing value you want.

highkoo · Post by **highkoo** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:33 pm

orange wrote:yes this has no time signatures.. it just has a 34% swing that i had to do in studio one first for the bassline and drums and then load into flstudio and do the percussion on the step sequencer with a 34% swing and then back to studio one for the synth parts and arps. but the playlist or the piano roll have no representation visually for the swing amount.

Ah ok, I see what you are saying.
The swing setting is odd because it is 'universal' to all the patterns, which is kind of dumb in itself, but at the same time like you said, it does not extend to piano roll/playlist. That seems like an odd inbetween state to me.
Tbh, I avoid using swing at all. I do everything manual.
I used the drop downs in the pattern seq like a mofo.

orange · Post by **orange** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:48 pm

i find the development of flstudio nice and fast.

but since they slowly incorporate a more linear aproach they really do have to implement some stuff that the linear world has.

specially in the playlist.

i know and i can understand the need to be different but some things in the linear sequencer world are very nice and its just stupid to neglect them for the sake of differentiate your daw from the rest.

its plain counter productive.

jancivil · Post by **jancivil** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:04 am

that is some of the stranger reading I think I've ever done regarding a DAW. there is no way in hell I would use something that [edit:] lacking in coherence.

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:24 am

orange wrote:
yes this has no time signatures.. it just has a 34% swing that i had to do in studio one first for the bassline and drums and then load into flstudio and do the percussion on the step sequencer with a 34% swing and then back to studio one for the synth parts and arps. but the playlist or the piano roll have no representation visually for the swing amount.

Ah ok, I see what you are saying.
The swing setting is odd because it is 'universal' to all the patterns, which is kind of dumb in itself, but at the same time like you said, it does not extend to piano roll/playlist. That seems like an odd inbetween state to me.
Tbh, I avoid using swing at all. I do everything manual.
I used the drop downs in the pattern seq like a mofo. HiHi

ever used the groove templates in piano roll? seems not. i'm not a power user with fl studio but i know that. do you worked with fl studio for 5 minutes?

and if your music have changes in time signature (and you still dont find alternative ways to do that) dont blame fl for that "non-function". anyway, i guess 99,99% of the user never will miss this. unbelievable lame bashing of a great daw!

valhallasound · Post by **valhallasound** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:42 am

Cyriak has a lot of complex time signatures in his music, and seems to get by with Fruity Loops:

http://www.youtube.com/cyriak

Plus, he creates his own animations to go with the music.

Sean Costello

orange · Post by **orange** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:44 am

murnau wrote:orange wrote:
yes this has no time signatures.. it just has a 34% swing that i had to do in studio one first for the bassline and drums and then load into flstudio and do the percussion on the step sequencer with a 34% swing and then back to studio one for the synth parts and arps. but the playlist or the piano roll have no representation visually for the swing amount.

Ah ok, I see what you are saying.
The swing setting is odd because it is 'universal' to all the patterns, which is kind of dumb in itself, but at the same time like you said, it does not extend to piano roll/playlist. That seems like an odd inbetween state to me.
Tbh, I avoid using swing at all. I do everything manual.
I used the drop downs in the pattern seq like a mofo. HiHi

ever used the groove templates in piano roll? seems not. i'm not a power user with fl studio but i know that. do you worked with fl studio for 5 minutes?

and if your music have changes in time signature (and you still dont find alternative ways to do that) dont blame fl for that "non-function". anyway, i guess 99,99% of the user never will miss this. unbelievable lame bashing of a great daw!

mate i work with flstudio since 2003.
groove templates is a workaround.. and you are exactly the flstudio user i was talking about before.
every time an issue about flstudio is brought up some of you guys are starting to PMS and throw some workarounds.

flstudio is lacking on that basic functionality since always. nobody here is hating flstudio or trying to make it look bad.
the thing is simple we love flstudio and thats why we talk about things that would make it better we are not bushing it specially not me since i have more than 25 releases worlwide using flstudio.

now if YOU used some other DAW you would know that flstudio needs to address this since its lacking in that department.

no you can continue as ALWAYS..

Nokenoku · Post by **Nokenoku** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:25 am

orange wrote:time signatures and swing must be implemented in the piano roll and playlist with a nice visual grid representation and snapping functions that every decent daw has.

"Swing" is an ancient feature from waaaay back.
If you want to "swing up" stuff in the Piano Roll, use Quantization with a so called "groove template". You can even make your own "groove templates".

But I see the point with time signature changes.

Edit:

orange wrote:groove templates is a workaround..

No, it's not a workaround, it's a very well thought out feature.
Easy to use and much more versatile than just a "swing control" you seem to ask for.

orange · Post by **orange** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:58 am

the feature is great.. but not having the piano roll and playlist grid to represent the swing amount or having your snap to really snap the notes or audio to the grid that has the swing value you want is not great? its bad to have your notes and audio to be precise on the grid so you can build your drum patterns or synth lines to fite the swing values..?

you tell me that loading a predefined template that doesnt much the grid at all and with every little correction you need to make you have to load it again.. is the proper way to do it?

if that is the case then every other DAW should copy flstudios way and then we will see how happy all the other producers that need the normal way feel about it!

murnau · Post by **murnau** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:54 pm

as i said i'm not a power user of fl.i use cubase and fl as a kind of sampler within.

for me it's enough with the templates. if not for you it's your problem not mine. people like you are funny, everything you think is important inside the daw for your workflow it have to be important for the rest of us.

again for you: I dont missed the issues you mention here. you got it? good! now put the tampoon back where you have it from. its better for you.

Time Signatures In Fl Studio