KVR Audio

meeks · Post by **meeks** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:30 am

That was a pretty good one!

ianweb123 · Post by **ianweb123** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:03 am

himalaya wrote:
gsoto wrote:gsoto_pink_panther.mp3
That's rather nice ! The sustain part of the sound is very good. However the attack sounds a bit like a harmonica.

Thats a good one, with a bit more randomisation in the attack phase it would be very good

gsoto · Post by **gsoto** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:52 am

Thanks!
I think that it could be improved a lot. I don't like the attack neither, but I don't have much time right now to keep playing with it.

I used:
Xhip -> XhipEffects Reverb -> SimulAnalog's Rednef Twin

Here is the patch.
It's something like this:
pulse wave, 50% width, pitch bended in the attack and with some vibrato
+ a bit of noise
-> lowpass filter, some resonance, some input modulation, envelope modulation using the same envelope for the amplitude
-> waveshaper
-> bandstop filter

I put Rednef aiming for a more dirty sound and the thing got much better.

I played it in mono "legato mode". Then added some notes manually to produce the bendings and draw some automation for glide speed and filter frequency.

aciddose wrote:but in the current version of xhip it isnt possible to apply different modulation depths on A/B modulators

Yep, I always end with the same problem.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:36 am

"So aciddose - did the experience give you any ideas for the improvement of Xhip?"

"Yep, I always end with the same problem."

xhip modular! :O

i'm working on experimentation to see if i can allow individual depths without excessive cpu use. everything requires cpu cycles though, you cant get much for free, otherwise it'd already have 1000 oscillators, 590 filters, 373 envelopes, etc. there are reasons things are they way they are. the number of modulation scalings is extremely important in xhip because of the fact i do all the modulation calcs per sample. most synthesizers do them every 16 or more samples, meaning they're 1/16 as costly, but also much worse quality.

gsoto · Post by **gsoto** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:28 am

I just came up with this: gsoto_sax2.mp3

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:36 am

haha there we go

xhip actually does _Really_ good sounds in ranges you'd never expect from a subtractive. i was finding all kinds of awesome reed sounds. i'm certain we can do a full xhip gm bank that will rival sampled banks once i get to the beta 7 testing phase.

i'm pretty torn between my sound and yours. yours sounds more like a tenor, but it has more of the general sound of a sax to it too.

rsmus7 · Post by **rsmus7** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:39 am

aciddose already had a very good desription of all the needs
to reproduce a good sounding sax
It's not easy to emulate it with a subtractive synth or any synth at all.
much of the timbre is depending on the player, and can change from note to note.
so it could maybe done with an inteligent random feature or somthing else.
the attack can have as many different colors as the sustain.

I used from my first example Zebra2 with a waveform I painted.
and I added some filters and envelopes and lfos,
envelopes for pitch and lfos for vibrato and filters.
I'm not satisfied with the sound, but it is already in the direction.
and it depends on the length of the played notes.
It is easier to make a short sound, but to get the right timbre for the sustain
is very hard.

never mind, I did another try, with the midi aciddose provided, to have a better
base to compare, tho I'm still not totally satisfied with the sustain, but listen:

PPT 2

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:55 am

The attack part of the sound is brilliant, rsmus7. It just needs some carefully added noise. I agree with your comments regarding the attack - sustain.

rsmus7 · Post by **rsmus7** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:02 pm

himalaya wrote:The attack part of the sound is brilliant, rsmus7. It just needs some carefully added noise. I agree with your comments regarding the attack - sustain.

new try here I added a bit more noise to the attack

and adjusted some other parameters, it's getting better imo

PPT 3

tho some of the sound is lost by the mp3 conversion

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:27 pm

There's some great sounds here. I really liked what aciddose was doing with making an instrument that sounded quite a lot like someone was actually controlling it with breath.

I liked gsoto's as well.

rsmus - I love the actual sound of your one, but to me it's missing a "blown" element in the sustain, especially when you get onto the theme melody.

I couldn't do anything near this though guys, so just an appreciative ear at this point.

Nice to see yet another example of why I think XHip is turning into a "choice" synth.

Regards
Caleb

emdot_ambient · Post by **emdot_ambient** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:36 pm

rsmus7's second go is pretty good . . . they all suffer when they go out of range. The sax is one of the hardest sounds to program. It changes so dynamically by player, playing control and over its range that any one synth program is going to have a tough go at it. Not hard to find "OK" sounds in one register and one playing style, but go out of range and it's all over.

I don't have time to try, but I'd be tempted to use a LOT of track automation to alter attack/sustain/noise and other controls for different frequency ranges . . . or use a whole stack of VSTs as one instrument, layering and controlling them all infinitesimally to cover the different ranges of the instrument.

Better you try it than me

emdot_ambient · Post by **emdot_ambient** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:36 pm

But if I were to try it, I'd be curious how well something like Spectra would do at it.

gsoto · Post by **gsoto** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:45 pm

rsmus, that sounds really nice!
I'd try to shorten the release, at least in some places.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:46 pm

rsmus7, your sound needs more noise still. I can't near it in PPT3.

By the way, my 'sax' was done on Pentagon 1.

Who fancies a little fun comp.