KVR Audio

dreaddd · Post by **dreaddd** » Thu May 10, 2007 4:49 pm

woooho

im waiting for my copy arriving in a week or so

caaaaaaaaant wait ...thanx everyone helping me out in this thread

Peace

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Thu May 10, 2007 5:08 pm

Glad things worked out for you, dreaddd; enjoy the brave new world of Cubase 4...

Sascha Franck wrote:Dudes, Steinberg support in general is horrible, nothing else but that.
But, compared to Apple support (I'm now a Mac-musicmachine-user), it's just stellar. I mean, there's no Apple support, not even bad support.

I'm curious about this: no support? Literally? I thought Mac users, who generally have to spend more money than us PC-hosers, would get closer attention!

loachm · Post by **loachm** » Thu May 10, 2007 5:43 pm

bduffy wrote:I thought Mac users, who generally have to spend more money than us PC-hosers, would get closer attention!

...generally you don't spend the money to get customer support. actually I believe, the term "customer support" must have been developed by a secret society to create some sort of conspiracy against hardware and software manufacturers. when it comes to macs you just spend the money for the snazzy design that even attracts girls who'd want them as some kind accessoire for their appartment. I hope that little explanation was helpful to you...

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Thu May 10, 2007 5:56 pm

loachm wrote:
bduffy wrote:I thought Mac users, who generally have to spend more money than us PC-hosers, would get closer attention!
...generally you don't spend the money to get customer support. actually I believe, the term "customer support" must have been developed by a secret society to create some sort of conspiracy against hardware and software manufacturers. when it comes to macs you just spend the money for the snazzy design that even attracts girls who'd want them as some kind accessoire for their appartment. I hope that little explanation was helpful to you...

Oh yes, that set me straight.

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Thu May 10, 2007 7:15 pm

I believe you have to purchase applecare audio support (or some such) separately, in addition to purchasing Logic itself.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Thu May 10, 2007 7:23 pm

diverdee wrote:I believe you have to purchase applecare audio support (or some such) separately, in addition to purchasing Logic itself.

Looks like there's a knowledgebase, and then, yeah: "To purchase AppleCare Professional Audio Support, call 1-866-75-APPLE"

Wow. I did not know that.

diverdee · Post by **diverdee** » Thu May 10, 2007 8:37 pm

Only ever the most recent version supported also I believe (from reading the blurb a while back).

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Thu May 10, 2007 8:49 pm

Amazing. Apple guys - how do you manage? (seriously, just asking)

Actually, come to think of it, I hardly even use the Steinberg forums, let alone actually contact Steinberg. Maybe you just don't need much support for Logic?

dreaddd · Post by **dreaddd** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:01 am

hey

thanx

enjoy the brave new world of Cubase 4...

not still wait..it would be committing suicide passing from Cubase VST 5.5 to that one

its almost like that already for me moving to SX3...i think ill stay SX3 for loooooong time still, Cubase 4 will be a move for me only right after the usual 236273 updates to fix *part* of the bugs

Peace

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:22 am

dreaddd wrote:hey thanx

enjoy the brave new world of Cubase 4...
not still wait..it would be committing suicide passing from Cubase VST 5.5 to that one
its almost like that already for me moving to SX3...i think ill stay SX3 for loooooong time still, Cubase 4 will be a move for me only right after the usual 236273 updates to fix *part* of the bugs

Peace

Oh, I thought you were getting 4 for some reason...

Ah well, SX 3 is great, and once you get over the differences, I think you'll learn to love it more than that old beast. You can undo all you want now!!

dreaddd · Post by **dreaddd** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:42 am

few use of the screenage of sx3 in the studio of a friend and i was quite frightened..but hell! Ill fuckin learn!

Peace

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:54 am

dreaddd wrote:few use of the screenage of sx3 in the studio of a friend and i was quite frightened..but hell! Ill fuckin learn!
Peace

That was my experience with VST32!

We got that and Nuendo 1.0 at the same time, and I was like "sod this!", and just stuck with Nuendo and jumped for joy when Cubase inherited the same engine, and I could afford to take it home.

dreaddd · Post by **dreaddd** » Fri May 11, 2007 2:15 am

lol lol lol
for me it was exactly the opposite almost...
when sx came out (since hating Nuendo screen) i went like "WTF ???they nuendized Cubase...noooooooooooooooooooooooo"

ill have to deal with that tho from now on heheh
Peace

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:37 am

Regarding Apple Care, it seems to be absolutely worthless as well. You pay a lot for sustained support (after purchasing something you have 90 days for free), just to talk to someone still having no clue.

Then, in software land, we do expect another type of support (even if we're not entitled to any support by whatever EULAs, that's just what makes the difference between nice companies and a bunch of assholes), which is regular updates, informations about bugs being adressed, a few company members being active on forums and mailing lists, etc.
Even a devil-ish company such as Steinberg "almost" does so. Apple doesn't. No bugfixes since almost a 3/4 year (and 7.2.3 is full of bugs), not a single hint whether whatever bugs will be adressed any day soon, not a single more or less "official spokesman" on any forum or mailing list (apart from Markus Fritze occasionally saying immensely helpful things such as "no, this doesn't work" on the german Logicuser forum).
So, while Steinberg has a sort of similar history in empty promises and not fixing longstanding bugs (see their promise of the finally ditched last SX3 maintainance update), they're really still 10x better in terms of user "interaction" than Apple. No, actually 1000x better. Or even infinitely better. I mean, if there's 0 support, you can only do infinitely better.

If it wasn't for some small events and hints (such as Apple still having a rather large booth at Musikmesse, such as Apogee apparently concentrating a lot on Logic as *the* sequencer of choice), you'd even think Logic would be a dead horse.
Yes, for a user this is really, really frustrating. And as a long time Logic user (and afficionado), as someone using digital audio products for a long time as well, as someone using quite some products from quite some companies, I can only tell you that I have never ever experienced something even halfway as bad as that.

And, even if I'm not particularly unhappy with my Macbook and LogicPro (it runs fine most of the time, most faults can be nailed down to 3rd party plugins), this is the very reason why I am still looking for a sequencer which will - at least one day - replace Logic. I simply don't want to support a company, which, when it comes to user relationships, acts like a bunch of arrogant dickheads. And I also don't want to pay a premium when all I essentially need is bugfixes.

Fwiw, even if I still think that, say, a Macbook along with Logic Express (or even Pro) is a really nice, powerful and financially attractive solution (ymmv, but well...), probably causing starters sort of less troubles in maintaining a well-running system than whatever PC with whatever sequencer and whatever plugins, I already stopped recommending it to any of my students or friends. If you knew me, that should tell you quite something. I mean, in the past I have probably generated more Logic users than some ads, I also sort of defended Emagics tactics (which weren't all that shiny either) whenever I thought it was appropriate. No more so.
If they don't get their noses back down at least a bit, they will lose another truly loyal customer one day.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:41 am

Wow. A sad tale, Sascha. I think it's just different when you know you've got the pro market sewn up; demos and intimate customer service are just foreign concepts. Unless you're Peter Gabriel's tech, in which case you know they're all over him! I supposed that they just know they have a built-in base, and why the f**k would they even know about things like EnergyXT or Reaper, or any of these amazing, uber-affordable upstarts, with developers that get up in the morning and sit down and chat with customers over a morning brew. To us it's second nature, to some of these bigger companies, it's business as usual, a la 1989.

I really wonder if they know they're losing loyal customers. If everyone has to pay just to communicate, how can you know?

steinberg.de - do they reply generally? it seems they do...