KVR Audio

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:51 am

Kim (esoundz) wrote:
bduffy wrote:My first sentence was referring to pushing your fader up until it (digitally) distorts, which just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
That's pretty much what we're talking about here.

There's this false dichotomy[1] between digital saturation and analogue saturation. Somehow analogue saturation is beautiful everywhere and we should push everything into the red whenever we can, but digital saturation is untenable and we need to stay below 0dBFS as all costs.

You see that red light above your meter? When it lights up, it means "keep going, you're almost there".

Use your ears. Digital clipping doesn't sound nearly as bad as everyone claims.

-Kim.

[1] I just wanted to use the term "false dichotomy".

Hmm...I want to use the term "straw man"...where can I put that...

Sometimes I'm shocked at what I have to defend here. I just haven't run into that many audio guys that enjoy ramming their faders up to 11,000 and basking in the digital glory. Guess I'm missing out on a wicked-cool master!

tonAP · Post by **tonAP** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:01 am

Also the whole thing has turned on 'Gclip' which doesn't let you go, say, +4dbfs or so, at all!: It does kinda hard waveshaping, right? Or not?
Does that mean clipping over 0dbfs *after everything*? NO! Just because you'll strongly stop the peaks before they really go out of your master into the mixdown for the CD mastering! Or not? Really: what are we (you) talking about?

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:03 am

I (we) don't know!!

tonAP · Post by **tonAP** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:14 am

From the developer himself:

GClip is a wave-shaping signal clipper. It prevents the input signal level from exceeding a specified maximum. The clipping function used can be altered to have a hard- or soft-knee.

A graph showing the shape of the clipping function is displayed on the GUI. There is also a wave display that shows what effect the clipping curve is having on the signal.

---
BTW: kvr puts it on the 'Lo Fi' plugins type...
[EDIT] Deleted [/EDIT]

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:47 am

digital clipping, the great mystery.

What is wrong with digital clipping? nothing. what is wrong with rendering your track well above zero.... the clipping ping pongs, down through your audio wave and the entire track becomes saturated with digital clipping. Why? becomes to a computer... zero is programmed at zero.

Now, it gets very complicated, ableton live has headroom, and a brickwall limiter has limiting algorithms, and we are now taught that we are supposed to make our tracks as loud as possible, right?

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!

when I hear theses home-made ultra loud, super clipped, recordings....

A) they are far louder than a major label track

and

B) they are saturated with digital clipping.

does digital clipping sound bad? depends on your ears, and the tool.

IMHO, Tera by virsyn has a great built in distortion. which is digital clipping. ohmicide, is another fine example of digital clipping, so it is the digital clipping that is ruining the tracks? yes n no.... its the ping pong, effect of it... when zero is the end, and the wave has no where to go, but back into the audio file itself.

that is what sounds horrible....

if you are pushing your end limiter any more above 9 decibals..... ( i think ) I can't remember exact number...... than you are doing something, absolutely wrong....

WAIT!!!

----- if you are about to say, " well, there is no right way to mix a track " Good for you. I could care less.

back in reality, NO PRO ENGINEER is delivering tracks saturated with digital clipping.

"Than why still do major labels tracks still sound louder than my loudness maximized track?"

cause its not just about slapping maximus on your track at the end there... or ozone, or whatever....

it is the entire mix process of proper compression and levels throughout. its, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts....

Yeah, I skimmed the thread, I don't know what plug we are even talking about really

but, there is my .02

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:49 am

Yeah, I dunno. I think people are getting their clippings mixed up. Just make the f**king mix sound good, for chrissake.

ouroboros · Post by **ouroboros** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:57 am

for the record, I would just like to say I am very confused.
This, however, is largely thread independent.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:58 am

This thread won't help, believe me.

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:41 am

confucius say,

be spanked and not clipped, if you are the master

tonAP · Post by **tonAP** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:58 am

Also lao-tzu overture:

the clip that you name clip isn't the real clip

from the Clip's Tao; or the art of clipping.

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:46 pm

To clip or not to clip: that is the question.

clipping the master