Does Knowledge of Theory Help You?

[JohnDX]

I've actually heard pop/rock players say that music theory classes/lessons "ruined" their playing or writing by taking what was once visceral and intuitive ("feeling") and applying "all these rules" which ultimately harmed their creative process.

I've heard the same thing. It's just because they're not very intelligent people though.

I've heard a lot of people say that someone said this, but I've yet to see it attributed to anyone or hear anyone actually say it. Surely this is an invented quotation, a meme as ubiquitous as it is ridiculous. A theoretical grounding in anything tells you what to do no more than it tells you what you're doing.

I've not heard it in regard to music, but I've seen that attitude many times, especially in regard to writing. I knew one guy (directly) who thought that his university courses in writing ruined his ability to write creatively. (I think he was wrong about that -- he had some serious issues.)

[Ogg Vorbis]

I've heard a lot of people say that someone said this, but I've yet to see it attributed to anyone or hear anyone actually say it. Surely this is an invented quotation, a meme as ubiquitous as it is ridiculous. A theoretical grounding in anything tells you what to do no more than it tells you what you're doing.

If I didn't hear it myself, it must be fake? Hooboy...

[vurt]

music theory is a western manmade concept. it is not music.
some music can and does make theory useful, not all musicians know the rules, some dont even know they exist, yet still music is made.
id say it depends on your own view of what music actually is or means.

[Uncle E]

This was, to a degree, the case with me. I took some theory with a private instructor for a few months, and then quit for lack of cash. It is currently hindering me. Though I have faith that it will cease to hinder me if I learn enough of it, and give it practice time. Unfortunately, I'm stuck with books at the moment. Hopefully I'll get where I need to be this way....

Taking a long time to learn it isn't at all a bad thing. There could even be a very real benefit to doing it at your own pace because you'll have the time to fully assimilate the information before moving on. Think about it in terms of Bach, there were few (if any) rules for him to follow, he created through his visceral, deep understanding of harmonic movement which, at the end of the day, is the whole point of theory.

[vurt]

On the whole, theory is a good thing. All the worst music is made by people who don't know any.

bollocks.

phil collins
enya
richard clayderman
chris de burgh
andrew lloyd webber
noel gallagher
elvis presley

all have at least some theory knowledge and have made some of the shittest ever shit shat from anywhere.

[The Fex]

I knew one guy (directly) who thought that his university courses in writing ruined his ability to write creatively.

Could it be that the process of studying bored him, and that killed his passion for writing? Something similar happened to me....

I could see that happening with music, too... for some people, anyway (there's another equally ubiquitous cliche, the kid who's forced to take piano lessons, but only learns to hate music). I'm a great believer that learning stuff should be fun.

I went to a music college for a year. It wasn't the happiest time in my life, and I didn't learn as much as I might have done.... I loved the process of learning about music, though, because my teachers rocked, and because I loved music. What I did learn has proved invaluable.... though I don't think I actually use it much, to be honest (for what I'm trying to do with music right now, I don't need to). Once in a while, though, it saves me an hour or two, and it has probably even saved a couple of songs. Above all, it's nice to feel that I know what I'm doing, even if knowing it isn't the reason I'm doing it.

[Uncle E]

That's quite a bold statement. To even get started with it you'd have to define what constitutes music as the worst or even bad for that manner. Then, you'd have to find examples with proof of people either not knowing theory or not using it.

Following strictly to the rules of theory, it is impossible to make bad music as it is defined by Western classical standards, thus it can be logically reasoned that all of the bad music has been made by people who don't know theory. Obviously, we can go back and forth about what constitutes good music but we should still be able to agree that well written, harmonically rich "classical" music is not bad, even if we don't care for it much ourselves.

[The Fex]

bollocks.

phil collins
enya
richard clayderman
chris de burgh
andrew lloyd webber
noel gallagher
elvis presley

They've sold millions! Technically, only two of them are consistently completely shit.... and stupid people still buy their bloody records. That's why I stressed that I was talking about crappy high school bands.... music so unutterably shitty that it could never possibly get anywhere. Believe it or not, there is 'music' in the world yet shitter than Phil Collins.

Your point is well made, however. I should have said, "On the whole, theory is a good thing. All the worst music is made by people who don't know any, and Chris de Burgh."

But you took your point too far....

richard clayderman

Oh, please. That's not even music.

[Ogg Vorbis]

Think about it in terms of Bach, there were few (if any) rules for him to follow, he created through his visceral, deep understanding of harmonic movement which, at the end of the day, is the whole point of theory.

I disagree with this. Palestrina's era and forward laid a lot of the ground for Herr Bach who came up through the ranks as an ecclesiastic musician. There was quite a lot of choral and instrumental music for J.S. Bach to study and much of it was pretty well formalized.

[Uncle E]

Once in a while, though, it saves me an hour or two, and it has probably even saved a couple of songs. Above all, it's nice to feel that I know what I'm doing, even if knowing it isn't the reason I'm doing it.

My original goal for wanting to learn theory was so I could immediately pencil down any idea that came to mind. Now I can do that but I usually just end up humming into my iPhone's 4-track.

[Kim Lajoie]

If you can read a map then you wont get lost and can get where you want to go. But the map doesn't just have to show you one way it can guide you down routes and pathways you would never have found wandering around on your own

I like this. Theory is like a map - it doesn't tell you where to go, but it does tell you how you can get there.

-Kim.

[The Fex]

If I had a specific goal when I went to college, it was to understand why playing D major over B minor in one of my songs actually sounded good. Now I can repeat that trick in any key, which is nice....

[tapper mike]

I'll reiterate.

Music isn't science.
As for those who are too lazy to tune thier guitar and can't connect three chords can't find the beat.

1 Quite a few songs have been built on one or two chords.
2 Microtonality and western music rarely mix even then it requires quite a bit of skill
3 There is a chance they are weaving the time continum but if they arent' doing it in a uniform manner They are prolly drunk or stoned or never took themselves seriously.

There will always be some that wish they could be musicians but never want enough to make it a reality. And others that use music as a backdrop for thier poetry.

[vurt]

They've sold millions!

well yes, because sales means quality, obviously.

[BERFAB]

This thread topic pops up all the time. I agree with others above that the OP has the wrong perspective on music theory.

Music theory is not a set of rules that musicians either follow or break. Rather it is the explanation of why music sounds the way it does.

An analogy I like to use is 'the laws of physics.' The 'laws' of physics are not a set of rules that scientists follow. It is the set of explanations that scientists have discovered that explain the natural behaviors within physics.

Knowing that the 1st, 4th and 5th are pleasant sounding in a progression can be very helpful in composition. Knowing WHY this is so may also be useful, but may not be as essential. But in either case, NOT knowing this won't make this progression sound any different.

-B